shaner2121
Active Member
338-408,408 CHEYTAC WOULD LIKE SOME INFO ON THESE ROUNDS. IS IT WORTH THE COST OR GO WITH THE 338 LAPUA . ALSO DOES ANYONE HAVE BRUCE BAERS CONTACT INFO, OR ANY OTHER SMITH THAT HAS BUILT THE 338-408 GUN.
338-408, 408 CHEYTAC
- Thread starter shaner2121
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Bruce Baer (717) 349-4077
www.baercustomrifles.com
[email protected]
Bruce will not pickup the phone so leave a message and he will return or return your email.
408 has a problem with bullets. Ie only lost river at $1 each. Can only get about 15-20 shots before barrel coppers bad and accuracy is downhill.
Leonard Baity at Baity Custom gunworks (336) 667-8785 has built 4-8 of the 408s for Bill Shehane Tom Sarver (ohio BR 1k range owner) and others. Leonard is top 1k br shooter, 1k smith and on top 100 pistol smith guild member. Leonard has the reamers on hand and can make the custom dies. Leonard has done work with all the barrel mftrs of the 40 and there are issues with some on their barrels, so I would talk to him for sure.
I have watched Bill and Tom both shoot the 408 at the Ohio mile shoots and coppering is a big problem.
"Randy in VA" on this site is working with bullet mftrs for custom bullets for the 408. Contact him and see what is going on. Barnes made him a 1000 custom 408 bullets. ;Not sure what his test of those bullets showed.
Can consider a 338 Lapua Ack Improved. Good brass ($1 each) and 300 gr sierras are good if sorted by ogive. Will give 3000 fps with 34" barrel and 300 gr sierras.
neil jones will build custom dies for $275 for the 338 Lap Ack.
If you go above the 32" on barrels, you will need a 9" barrel block, use the split model. That will allow you to go out to 36" or maybe little more.
BH
www.baercustomrifles.com
[email protected]
Bruce will not pickup the phone so leave a message and he will return or return your email.
408 has a problem with bullets. Ie only lost river at $1 each. Can only get about 15-20 shots before barrel coppers bad and accuracy is downhill.
Leonard Baity at Baity Custom gunworks (336) 667-8785 has built 4-8 of the 408s for Bill Shehane Tom Sarver (ohio BR 1k range owner) and others. Leonard is top 1k br shooter, 1k smith and on top 100 pistol smith guild member. Leonard has the reamers on hand and can make the custom dies. Leonard has done work with all the barrel mftrs of the 40 and there are issues with some on their barrels, so I would talk to him for sure.
I have watched Bill and Tom both shoot the 408 at the Ohio mile shoots and coppering is a big problem.
"Randy in VA" on this site is working with bullet mftrs for custom bullets for the 408. Contact him and see what is going on. Barnes made him a 1000 custom 408 bullets. ;Not sure what his test of those bullets showed.
Can consider a 338 Lapua Ack Improved. Good brass ($1 each) and 300 gr sierras are good if sorted by ogive. Will give 3000 fps with 34" barrel and 300 gr sierras.
neil jones will build custom dies for $275 for the 338 Lap Ack.
If you go above the 32" on barrels, you will need a 9" barrel block, use the split model. That will allow you to go out to 36" or maybe little more.
BH
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Barnes is making .408 bullets out of bronze and turning them on a lathe. They look really good, especially for Barnes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif They still cost over a buck a bullet though.
The .338-408 would give limited barrel life for sure, but if you don't mind that, it would be ok.
The .338 Lapua Improved seems like the most logical approach for 2500 yards plus. It has 90% of the trajecory of a 50 bmg with way less cost and recoil. I will have one here to play with in about a week and I will let you know how it does!
The .338-408 would give limited barrel life for sure, but if you don't mind that, it would be ok.
The .338 Lapua Improved seems like the most logical approach for 2500 yards plus. It has 90% of the trajecory of a 50 bmg with way less cost and recoil. I will have one here to play with in about a week and I will let you know how it does!
At 2000 yards, your problem is not with the gun or caliber. It is with the scope.
Only 2 scopes have enough elevation to get there out of the box.
One is the Unertls($600-900), I am using a BV-20 ($400-600 used) and the other is the US Optics with ther Ergo mounts ($3500-5000).
You can use a NF with 150 MOA ring and mount setup by (?). Cannot remember the name now but begins with a T. Randy in VA is dealer for them and they cost about $500 if I remember right.
My 338 Lapua Ack Imp is all that is needed I think and half the cost. Give the 408 a couple years until they work the bugs out on bullets. Right now not there yet.
BH
Only 2 scopes have enough elevation to get there out of the box.
One is the Unertls($600-900), I am using a BV-20 ($400-600 used) and the other is the US Optics with ther Ergo mounts ($3500-5000).
You can use a NF with 150 MOA ring and mount setup by (?). Cannot remember the name now but begins with a T. Randy in VA is dealer for them and they cost about $500 if I remember right.
My 338 Lapua Ack Imp is all that is needed I think and half the cost. Give the 408 a couple years until they work the bugs out on bullets. Right now not there yet.
BH
A luepold Long range target scope or a NF 5.5-22 or 3.5-15 will do the job to get to 2000 with a tapered base. No need to spend mega bucks on a base either. I have a Lapuaa and a Geske action. I needed a custom base to fit so i Gave Ken Farrel a call and had him make me a 40 moa base. Cost me $100 but see his custom prices went up to $130. Very nice base and great guy to deal with.
With my Lapua i am only pushing a 300 ULD bullet at a modest 2850fps and i originally had a NF 8x32. I haven't shot to 2000 yards yet but have to 1400 and had no problem with that setup. Recently traded the 8x 32 for a 3.5-15 NF.
Pushing the 300 uld at 2850 you only need somwhere around 72moa to get to 2000. Mind you that is at my elevation at 4350. You do need at least 20 moa base better if it was 30 or 40moa. You might not be zeroed at 100yards but you will be on the target at 100 if you choose to see what groups are doing at 100.
TTI is making some 408 bullets. Just gotta convince Richard at Wildcat bullets that there is a demand for the 408 bullets so he can get dies and make a Lead core bullet for it that will be cheaper than lathe turned bullets /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
With my Lapua i am only pushing a 300 ULD bullet at a modest 2850fps and i originally had a NF 8x32. I haven't shot to 2000 yards yet but have to 1400 and had no problem with that setup. Recently traded the 8x 32 for a 3.5-15 NF.
Pushing the 300 uld at 2850 you only need somwhere around 72moa to get to 2000. Mind you that is at my elevation at 4350. You do need at least 20 moa base better if it was 30 or 40moa. You might not be zeroed at 100yards but you will be on the target at 100 if you choose to see what groups are doing at 100.
TTI is making some 408 bullets. Just gotta convince Richard at Wildcat bullets that there is a demand for the 408 bullets so he can get dies and make a Lead core bullet for it that will be cheaper than lathe turned bullets /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
shaner2121
Active Member
THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO! DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY BALLISTICS INFO ON THE 338-408 WITH A 300 MATCHKING? ALSO HOW IS THE ACCURACY? I'M LOOKING AT A 408 FROM PRAIRIE GUN WORKS. HOW ARE THERE RIFLES.
Contact Mike Rock at Rock Creek Barrels about the 338-505 Sloan cartridge. It's a winner.
[email protected] or 608-862-2357.
[email protected] or 608-862-2357.
Richard338
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2003
- Messages
- 126
The rifles from PGWDTI are fantastic. I own a .338 Timberwolf. The accuracy is unbelievable. I'm having them build me a 1000 yard f-class rifle now. They will use whatever barrel, reamer, stock, and trigger you want. Combine that with one of their actions and you should be happy! Personally I would go with a .338 caliber over the .408
ricka0
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It has 90% of the trajecory of a 50 bmg with way less cost and recoil.
[/ QUOTE ]
BS on ALL counts. You can get a new ALS for under $2K - and they routinouly dominate the 1000 yard competitions. My 50BMGs kick far less than my 243 (altho my pitite neices say my 338 Win Mag BAR with BOSS kicks less than the 50's - all easy to shoot)
Only the fifty has the energy to kill an elk at that range.
I;ll be using my semi-custom 338 RUM/Lilja/Kirby next year to hunt elk - but if I had a horse to pack it, I'd take one of my 50's. ( I don't perscribe to the nail your boot down elk club /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )
It has 90% of the trajecory of a 50 bmg with way less cost and recoil.
[/ QUOTE ]
BS on ALL counts. You can get a new ALS for under $2K - and they routinouly dominate the 1000 yard competitions. My 50BMGs kick far less than my 243 (altho my pitite neices say my 338 Win Mag BAR with BOSS kicks less than the 50's - all easy to shoot)
Only the fifty has the energy to kill an elk at that range.
I;ll be using my semi-custom 338 RUM/Lilja/Kirby next year to hunt elk - but if I had a horse to pack it, I'd take one of my 50's. ( I don't perscribe to the nail your boot down elk club /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )
ricka0
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
A luepold Long range target scope or a NF 5.5-22 or 3.5-15 will do the job
[/ QUOTE ]
The NightForce NXS is the way to go - with close to 100 MOA and a 45 MOA precant base.
Actual 5.5-22 NXS MOA range
[ QUOTE ]
I needed a custom base to fit so i Gave Ken Farrel
[/ QUOTE ]
Ken F is top notch. Fenton Sandlin is also good ricka's CANT page with Fenton's email addr
I shoot A-MAX with a BC of 1, but you can get 50 BMG bullets with a BC of 1.1 - the A-MAX are a bit more than a buck a piece.
A luepold Long range target scope or a NF 5.5-22 or 3.5-15 will do the job
[/ QUOTE ]
The NightForce NXS is the way to go - with close to 100 MOA and a 45 MOA precant base.
Actual 5.5-22 NXS MOA range
[ QUOTE ]
I needed a custom base to fit so i Gave Ken Farrel
[/ QUOTE ]
Ken F is top notch. Fenton Sandlin is also good ricka's CANT page with Fenton's email addr
I shoot A-MAX with a BC of 1, but you can get 50 BMG bullets with a BC of 1.1 - the A-MAX are a bit more than a buck a piece.
Richard338
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2003
- Messages
- 126
Shooting my friends 50BMG I have to agree that the recoil is not like the magazine writer's dramatic stories.
Still, Big Bore, you must have a strange looking .243 if it out kicks your 50!
The 50 I shot weighs 35LBS, maybe yours is a lot more?
Still, Big Bore, you must have a strange looking .243 if it out kicks your 50!
The 50 I shot weighs 35LBS, maybe yours is a lot more?
ricka0
Well-Known Member
50 BMG record is 2,430 metres
[ QUOTE ]
Shooting my friends 50BMG
[/ QUOTE ]
What does your friend have? Brake? Weight?
This is a confirmed kill, not the electronic groups/kills posted on the 99.99% BS internet A kill from 2,430 meters
Actually I have 3 BMG's. Like I've said dozens of times, kick is very subjective. My petite niece's all say my .243 and my 338 Win Mag kick least (the 338 BAR the lowest recoil) - My brother and nephews put Big Bertha ( 41 lbs - exceptional brake ) as the lowest recoiler - Altho it does push you back several inches - but it's a pleasant push.
Shorty kicks harder than the .243 Win - or my 338 BAR - but far less that my '06 or 270 WSM. The '06 is about all I like to shoot off the bench (multiple groups).
The SA 50 BMG has a good 1000 yard competition record, however the ALS is starting to dominate. My factory card on my ALS 50 BMG had a <font color="red"> MOA of .03" </font> - that's with random A-MAX and no load work-up (off a rail-gun mount to eliminate human error)
Believe me, I love my 338's and consider it the ultimate elk/deer/bear/antelope long range gun. But this 338 hysteria of > 2,500 yard kills (like the Canadian sniper team did) is pure BS - even with the magic BC bullets with ungodly BC's
Whatever BC you can get for the 338 - even the
magic BC bullets - the 50 can outdo by a significant margin.
Answer this. Your an American Special forces team pinned down by a Taliban heavy machine gun crew. Our buddies the Canuck are 2,430 meters away - what do you want them shooting? A 338 which kicks up a bit of dust at that range or the big fifty that creates <font color="red"> physiological terror </font> to all the terrorists who witness it's destructive power.
There are far more lapua 338 sniper teams, but so far none has come close to what the 50 will do.
BTW - we yanks wanted to give the awesome Canuck soldiers the bronze star - the ultra PC Canuck gov wanted to court martial them.
Right now I consider my semi-custom 338 RUM/Kirby/Lilja the ultimate long range elk gun - as I can easily tote the 20 pounder dozens of miles. In 20 years tho, I'll be having one of my nephews (or grand nephews) tote a 50 for me - when I'll join the walk little - wait long elk club.
SERBU makes an excellent 17lb 50 BMG - but it does kick more than my guns.
[ QUOTE ]
Shooting my friends 50BMG
[/ QUOTE ]
What does your friend have? Brake? Weight?
This is a confirmed kill, not the electronic groups/kills posted on the 99.99% BS internet A kill from 2,430 meters
Actually I have 3 BMG's. Like I've said dozens of times, kick is very subjective. My petite niece's all say my .243 and my 338 Win Mag kick least (the 338 BAR the lowest recoil) - My brother and nephews put Big Bertha ( 41 lbs - exceptional brake ) as the lowest recoiler - Altho it does push you back several inches - but it's a pleasant push.
Shorty kicks harder than the .243 Win - or my 338 BAR - but far less that my '06 or 270 WSM. The '06 is about all I like to shoot off the bench (multiple groups).
The SA 50 BMG has a good 1000 yard competition record, however the ALS is starting to dominate. My factory card on my ALS 50 BMG had a <font color="red"> MOA of .03" </font> - that's with random A-MAX and no load work-up (off a rail-gun mount to eliminate human error)
Believe me, I love my 338's and consider it the ultimate elk/deer/bear/antelope long range gun. But this 338 hysteria of > 2,500 yard kills (like the Canadian sniper team did) is pure BS - even with the magic BC bullets with ungodly BC's
Whatever BC you can get for the 338 - even the
magic BC bullets - the 50 can outdo by a significant margin.
Answer this. Your an American Special forces team pinned down by a Taliban heavy machine gun crew. Our buddies the Canuck are 2,430 meters away - what do you want them shooting? A 338 which kicks up a bit of dust at that range or the big fifty that creates <font color="red"> physiological terror </font> to all the terrorists who witness it's destructive power.
There are far more lapua 338 sniper teams, but so far none has come close to what the 50 will do.
BTW - we yanks wanted to give the awesome Canuck soldiers the bronze star - the ultra PC Canuck gov wanted to court martial them.
Right now I consider my semi-custom 338 RUM/Kirby/Lilja the ultimate long range elk gun - as I can easily tote the 20 pounder dozens of miles. In 20 years tho, I'll be having one of my nephews (or grand nephews) tote a 50 for me - when I'll join the walk little - wait long elk club.
SERBU makes an excellent 17lb 50 BMG - but it does kick more than my guns.
Richard338
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2003
- Messages
- 126
Re: 50 BMG record is 2,430 metres
Big Bore,
My friends 50 is a PGWDTI LRT-3. It weighs in at 35 lbs, and has a muzzle brake.
I agree that the recoil isn't sharp, but more of a push. Even so, it IS a bit of a push.
Also I'm not disputing that the 50BMG is better suited to long range shooting. My .338 LM falls a bit short for extreme range.
I don't think that 2430m is an every day shot even for the BMG.
Some of us in Canada are proud of our snipers even if the gov doesn't want to acknowledge them.
Big Bore,
My friends 50 is a PGWDTI LRT-3. It weighs in at 35 lbs, and has a muzzle brake.
I agree that the recoil isn't sharp, but more of a push. Even so, it IS a bit of a push.
Also I'm not disputing that the 50BMG is better suited to long range shooting. My .338 LM falls a bit short for extreme range.
I don't think that 2430m is an every day shot even for the BMG.
Some of us in Canada are proud of our snipers even if the gov doesn't want to acknowledge them.
