300WSM Conversion and ladder testing IMR4451

Discussion in 'Extreme Long Range Hunting & Shooting (ELR)' started by MagTen, Sep 26, 2018.

  1. MagTen

    MagTen Well-Known Member

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    WOW WOW WOW. I have done some research on different powders for my 300WSM. Ran across articles on IMR4451. Also I have NEVER been able to get good groups with any ELD-X or ELD-M bullets with my 308 or 300WSM. Today I ladder tested my 300WSM with IMR4451. ABSOLUTELY the best groups I have gotten EVER. I loaded and shot 2 shot groups from 60.7grs thru 65.0Cgrs. 9 shots under 1/2". 5 shots under 3/4". 3 shots under .950". Rest were under 1.5". ALL these shots were ELD-X 168gr.




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  2. jasent

    jasent Well-Known Member

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    64.6 looks good as far as speed but 2 shot groups kinda handicaps your results a bit. I’d say a bit more testing in that area
     
  3. MagTen

    MagTen Well-Known Member

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    Ladder test Rem M700VSF heavy fluted stainless 308 converted to 300WSM with 1 and 12 twist. 100 yard distance.
    Be prepared to get your feeling hurt. Sorry for that. Here is my opinion.
    It has been stated that others shooting their rifles at 100 yards and moving to 200 yards often show different results as to group sizes and I agree. The law of physics indicates that a bullets flight is mostly straight. If it is off 1/4" @ 100 is should be off 1/2" at 200 and so on. I am aware that bullet stability beyond 200-300 yards out to 1000 or more is critical and changes the impact at those distances. Let's forget these distances.
    Let's talk about 100-200 yards and most of you seasoned shoots are beyond my thinking so bear in mind I'm learning even after 50 years of shooting.
    Several issues I want to address:
    1) Some say a certain will not shoot well with the gun/bullet I am using. Out of the hundreds of powders available today this may be true. Out of the hundreds there are only a few that is recommended or loadings listed for your cartridge. Let's say you like Hodgdon Powder. Like me you picked out a starting load and choose 5 different grainage and you found those 5 different loadings gave you no better that 1 1/4" groups and thus you decided that powder was not for you... WRONG
    Only when I started ladder testing each powder have I learned that after using 1/2 dozen recommended powders that almost all powders (mind you that are recommended) will give you a couple sweet spots that will most likely give you fairly good groups. I have found that it takes testing each powder in .10 grain increments to truly test for the sweet spots.
    Once I have narrowed down several brand bullets/weights and powder that is giving me the best groups I will then start working with bullet seating depths.
    I may have simplified what it takes to get good groups with all powders used and I do realize that many other things play into good groups. Barrel quality, twist rate matchup with bullet weights & quality of the shooter.
    The final issue I would like to touch on. I have heard it said that a shooter has seen his groups give certain results at 100 yards and get better or tighten up at 200-300 or more yards. My personal opinion is that this is partially impossible. Remember this: there are other factors that would make it appear that your groups did tighten. The physics of bullet flight is almost certainly effected by speed, bullet stability, (remember we are just talking about 100-250 yards), the shooters ability to hold on target, twist rate, etc. The way you SEE the target at 200 verses 100 may be the cause of your tighter groups. If your gun, twist rate and velocity are all matched you do not have a bullet stability problem. Now it is a different story at extra long range and we are not talking to those folks. I weather is calm and your gun/bullet dynamics are correct your bullet can not change course which it would have to do to get better groups at 200 vs. 100. Think about it and please give us your experiences. 20180927_181137.jpg 20180929_105712.jpg 20180929_105719.jpg 20180929_105725.jpg 20180929_105731.jpg 20180929_105739.jpg 20180929_105743.jpg 20180929_105749.jpg 20180929_105753.jpg 20180929_105759.jpg
     
  4. MagTen

    MagTen Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, those are my next plans. I'll be picking out four of the tightest groups and make 5 shot groups and ladder test them also. Thanks
     
    jasent likes this.
  5. Chad Schmidt

    Chad Schmidt Member

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    I agree on seating depth .010" can be the difference in a good load and a great one with everything else the same.
    Chad
     
  6. Barrelnut

    Barrelnut Well-Known Member

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    Nice rifle and load work up. As far as a load shooting better ar 200 vs 100, because the bullet has time to settle out and "go to sleep". Bryan Litz did check into this a couple years back and couldn't find any evidence to support it. IMO is is just the shooter shooting better at 200 because they are little better focused on the fundamentals of shooting when at 200 yards. Who knows. But that's a very nice rifle. I have a 300 WSM too.
     
  7. Braaten

    Braaten Member

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    Good read I am going to start reloading some eldx's for my 300 wsm as soon as I get my bench set up
     
  8. ar10ar15man

    ar10ar15man Active Member

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    you CANNOT ladder test 5 shot GROUPS.
    a LADDER is 0.0x grain increasing steps looking for nodes/sweet spots.
    shooting five shot groups is just that, GROUP SHOOTING.