300 wsm 210 Berger loads?

[uhcoog1]

I did a little testing with 4 powders on my 300 wsm today (savage 24" barrel). Winchester once fired brass, CCI 250's.

I loaded to mag length, ~2.86", which is around .120" off the lands. I didn't have much time so I only loaded:
H4350 - 57.0, 57.5, 58.0, 58.5, 59.0
RL17 - 61.0, 61.5, 62.0 (stopped here, sticky bolt, no extractor groove expansion, though)
H4831 - 63.0, 63.5, 64.0, 64.5, 65.0 (sticky bolt, no ext groove expansion)
H4831SC - 63.0, 63.5, 64.0. 64.5, 65.0, 65.5

My chrono readings I questioned towards the end of the day, but my early readings were good.

H4350 - 2644-2717 fps
RL17 - 2890-2967 fps (Pressure signs at 2967, past max load. Talk about FAST!)
H4831 - 2680-2789 (best guess- readings were jumping around)
H4831sc - 2659-2736? (best guess - readings were jumping around)

Can someone tell me what the max loads are for these powders? Anybody got quickload? I really liked how 4831 and 4831sc looked on paper.

Thanks!

 

[beretzs]

Wow, those RL17 loads look pretty good. I am about to try out some 200 AB's in my 300WSM, so I might have to put some RL17 in the lineup.

 

[uhcoog1]

I did a little testing with 4 powders on my 300 wsm today (savage 24" barrel). Winchester once fired brass, CCI 250's.

I loaded to mag length, ~2.86", which is around .120" off the lands. I didn't have much time so I only loaded:
H4350 - 57.0, 57.5, 58.0, 58.5, 59.0
RL17 - 61.0, 61.5, 62.0 (stopped here, sticky bolt, no extractor groove expansion, though)
H4831 - 63.0, 63.5, 64.0, 64.5, 65.0 (sticky bolt, no ext groove expansion)
H4831SC - 63.0, 63.5, 64.0. 64.5, 65.0, 65.5

My chrono readings I questioned towards the end of the day, but my early readings were good.

H4350 - 2644-2717 fps
RL17 - 2890-2967 fps (Pressure signs at 2967, past max load. Talk about FAST!)
H4831 - 2680-2789 (best guess- readings were jumping around)
H4831sc - 2659-2736? (best guess - readings were jumping around)

Can someone tell me what the max loads are for these powders? Anybody got quickload? I really liked how 4831 and 4831sc looked on paper.

Thanks!

I emailed Berger, and they sent some quickload data, but it didn't have RL17 for the 210's. For 190 gr bergers, it was 54.5-60.5 gr RL17. Looks like my load was over pressure according to quickload. I've read QL is not great for RL17; is that correct?

Other data given:
H4350 - 53.5-59.5 gr
H4831SC - 57.5-64 gr

Wow, those RL17 loads look pretty good. I am about to try out some 200 AB's in my 300WSM, so I might have to put some RL17 in the lineup.

I definitely need to do some more testing with it, given I only shot 3 rounds before I stopped with the RL17.

Does anyone know a safe max for RL17 in a 300 wsm with 210 Bergers?

 

[beretzs]

I emailed Berger, and they sent some quickload data, but it didn't have RL17 for the 210's. For 190 gr bergers, it was 54.5-60.5 gr RL17. Looks like my load was over pressure according to quickload. I've read QL is not great for RL17; is that correct?

Other data given:
H4350 - 53.5-59.5 gr
H4831SC - 57.5-64 gr




I definitely need to do some more testing with it, given I only shot 3 rounds before I stopped with the RL17.

Does anyone know a safe max for RL17 in a 300 wsm with 210 Bergers?

Send me a PM and I will run QL for you. While it might not be perfect, might be close enough to get you started.

 

[ehryk]

QL is a great program but it is terrable for RL17

 

[beretzs]

QL is a great program but it is terrable for RL17

How does your results run compared to this? Just wondering. I have tried RL17 with the 180 AB's, it was fast without pressure, but RL19 worked out more accurately for me.


Cartridge : .300 WSM (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 210, Berger VLD #30415
Useable Case Capaci: 69.724 grain H2O = 4.527 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.900 inch = 73.66 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 80 54.00 2540 3009 46973 9309 100.0 1.394
-09.0 81 54.60 2564 3065 48404 9368 100.0 1.375
-08.0 82 55.20 2587 3121 49882 9427 100.0 1.356
-07.0 83 55.80 2610 3177 51403 9484 100.0 1.338
-06.0 84 56.40 2633 3234 52968 9542 100.0 1.320
-05.0 85 57.00 2656 3290 54578 9599 100.0 1.303
-04.0 85 57.60 2679 3347 56237 9655 100.0 1.286 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 86 58.20 2702 3405 57947 9711 100.0 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 87 58.80 2725 3462 59706 9766 100.0 1.252 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 88 59.40 2747 3520 61519 9820 100.0 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 89 60.00 2770 3577 63390 9874 100.0 1.220 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 90 60.60 2792 3636 65310 9927 100.0 1.205 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 91 61.20 2815 3694 67281 9980 100.0 1.189 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 92 61.80 2837 3753 69306 10032 100.0 1.174 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 93 62.40 2859 3811 71390 10083 100.0 1.160 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 93 63.00 2881 3871 73536 10134 100.0 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 89 60.00 2844 3770 74806 9578 100.0 1.147 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 89 60.00 2658 3294 52288 10292 99.9 1.319

 

[ehryk]

Go to Alliants site, look up any load for RL 17 and plug in the max into QL. In almost every case it will show way over presure. This is not a failing of QL, but rather because the way RL 17 is made, it doesnt follow the rules of normal powders. The retardant is not just a coating on RL 17 like normal powders, rather it is mixed throughout the kernal making for a slower burn with longer maintained presures.

 

[beretzs]

I just looked it up on Alliant, they show 66 grains for a 180 Speer BTSP. Looking at QL, it doesn't look way off if you account for different chambers, barrels and case cap variation. I do think it shines really well in places where it works though. I have heard it is excellent in the 25-06 with 115 BT's.


Cartridge : .300 WSM (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 180, Speer BTSP 2052
Useable Case Capaci: 72.721 grain H2O = 4.722 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 83 58.50 2775 3079 48220 9966 100.0 1.282
-09.0 84 59.15 2802 3139 49743 10028 100.0 1.264
-08.0 85 59.80 2829 3199 51315 10086 100.0 1.246
-07.0 86 60.45 2856 3259 52936 10142 100.0 1.229
-06.0 87 61.10 2882 3320 54608 10197 100.0 1.212
-05.0 88 61.75 2908 3381 56333 10252 100.0 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 89 62.40 2934 3442 58110 10306 100.0 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 90 63.05 2960 3503 59948 10359 100.0 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 91 63.70 2986 3564 61840 10412 100.0 1.147 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 92 64.35 3012 3626 63799 10464 100.0 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 92 65.00 3038 3688 65818 10515 100.0 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0 93 65.65 3063 3750 67903 10566 100.0 1.102 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 94 66.30 3088 3812 70055 10616 100.0 1.087 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 95 66.95 3114 3875 72282 10665 100.0 1.073 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 96 67.60 3139 3938 74581 10713 100.0 1.059 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 97 68.25 3164 4001 76951 10761 100.0 1.045 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 92 65.00 3125 3904 78032 10182 100.0 1.047 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 92 65.00 2904 3370 54262 10927 99.5 1.210