300 WM: rifle weight vs. felt recoil

[Drjones65]

I have a very nice Remington Sendero 300 WM. It has a 26" fluted heavy contour barrel (0.820" Muzzle O.D.) and a muzzle brake.
The stock is composite reinforced with aramid fibers and has a wide contoured beavertail fore-end and full-length aluminum bedding blocks and a recoil pad.
Spec weight before the rail, rings and scope is 8.5 lbs.
I am guessing that currently with 3 rounds, muzzle brake, sling, 20 MOA rail, rings and a Leupold VX-3 6.5-20 x 40 scope I am easy 11 lbs.?
It is extremely accurate and groups very well. Sitting on the bench it is enjoyable to shoot and not too punishing on the shoulder.
I live in Northern Utah and hunt mule deer and elk. I am mid 50's and it seems that each fall maybe the hills get a little steeper and the brush gets a little thicker.
During last fall's elk hunt I decided I wanted another 300 WM for hunting. I want a long range rifle with great, consistent accuracy. I reload and feel comfortable in my reloading ability as I have the experience and use premium components. On the bench I am capable of very solid and consistent groups.
I have spent the past 5 months reading and studying and research some of the new new long range rifles trying to decide what I wanted.
Many of the so called "long range" rifles are 9 lbs. to start and when I visit the stores and pick up the rifles they are too heavy to me.

Here are 6 rifles that I looked at today and their weight:

Bergara Highlander: 7.8 lbs.
Christensen ELR: 8.4 lbs.
Christensen Ridgeline: 6.8 lbs.
Cooper Open Country: 9.0 lbs.
Cooper Open Country Lightweight: 7.0 lbs.
Cooper Timberline: 7.0 lbs.

The Christensen Ridgeline and the Cooper Timberline felt the best when I picked them up. They should quickly and easily and felt great to hold and to aim and swing.
The Christensen Arms Ridgeline is $1,749.99 (SUB-MOA guarantee) and the Cooper Timberline is $2,549.99 (1/2 MOA accuracy guarantee). Is there really $800 difference between the two?
(The Cooper Open Country Lightweight w / Proof Research carbon fiber barrel is $3,995.00 so $2,245.01 difference).

If I drop down to one of those lighter rifles, even with a muzzle brake, how much more felt recoil am I going to experience than with my heavy Sendero?
Is it going to be punishing on the shoulder?
Am I going to be able to spend time at the range practicing and not regret it in the morning?

Sorry for the long post - I greatly appreciate and value the knowledge and experience of this group!

 

[Muddyboots]

Good muzzle brake will certainly reduce felt recoil. You didn't mention bullet weight but consider shooting lighter bullets as well to reduce felt recoil. Only couple ways to reduce recoil in lighter rifles: muzzle brake, lighter bullets, lighter powder loads. Look at load tables to find powder that delivers velocity at lighter loads too. May find load that shoots well enough.

Since Sendero is about 8.5, you really don't gain much unless you drop weight to no more than 7 IMO.

 

[338 dude]

I have a very nice Remington Sendero 300 WM. It has a 26" fluted heavy contour barrel (0.820" Muzzle O.D.) and a muzzle brake.
The stock is composite reinforced with aramid fibers and has a wide contoured beavertail fore-end and full-length aluminum bedding blocks and a recoil pad.
Spec weight before the rail, rings and scope is 8.5 lbs.
I am guessing that currently with 3 rounds, muzzle brake, sling, 20 MOA rail, rings and a Leupold VX-3 6.5-20 x 40 scope I am easy 11 lbs.?
It is extremely accurate and groups very well. Sitting on the bench it is enjoyable to shoot and not too punishing on the shoulder.
I live in Northern Utah and hunt mule deer and elk. I am mid 50's and it seems that each fall maybe the hills get a little steeper and the brush gets a little thicker.
During last fall's elk hunt I decided I wanted another 300 WM for hunting. I want a long range rifle with great, consistent accuracy. I reload and feel comfortable in my reloading ability as I have the experience and use premium components. On the bench I am capable of very solid and consistent groups.
I have spent the past 5 months reading and studying and research some of the new new long range rifles trying to decide what I wanted.
Many of the so called "long range" rifles are 9 lbs. to start and when I visit the stores and pick up the rifles they are too heavy to me.

Here are 6 rifles that I looked at today and their weight:

Bergara Highlander: 7.8 lbs.
Christensen ELR: 8.4 lbs.
Christensen Ridgeline: 6.8 lbs.
Cooper Open Country: 9.0 lbs.
Cooper Open Country Lightweight: 7.0 lbs.
Cooper Timberline: 7.0 lbs.

The Christensen Ridgeline and the Cooper Timberline felt the best when I picked them up. They should quickly and easily and felt great to hold and to aim and swing.
The Christensen Arms Ridgeline is $1,749.99 (SUB-MOA guarantee) and the Cooper Timberline is $2,549.99 (1/2 MOA accuracy guarantee). Is there really $800 difference between the two?
(The Cooper Open Country Lightweight w / Proof Research carbon fiber barrel is $3,995.00 so $2,245.01 difference).

If I drop down to one of those lighter rifles, even with a muzzle brake, how much more felt recoil am I going to experience than with my heavy Sendero?
Is it going to be punishing on the shoulder?
Am I going to be able to spend time at the range practicing and not regret it in the morning?

Sorry for the long post - I greatly appreciate and value the knowledge and experience of this group!

Of the rifles you mentioned I would get the 9 pound Cooper without hesitation they are a quality firearm and I have never heard any bad reviews from them

 

[sierracharlie338]

Why not build a custom that might come in lighter or at least the same as some of those and get exactly what you want?

 

[Send it 284]

I have a very nice Remington Sendero 300 WM. It has a 26" fluted heavy contour barrel (0.820" Muzzle O.D.) and a muzzle brake.
The stock is composite reinforced with aramid fibers and has a wide contoured beavertail fore-end and full-length aluminum bedding blocks and a recoil pad.
Spec weight before the rail, rings and scope is 8.5 lbs.
I am guessing that currently with 3 rounds, muzzle brake, sling, 20 MOA rail, rings and a Leupold VX-3 6.5-20 x 40 scope I am easy 11 lbs.?
It is extremely accurate and groups very well. Sitting on the bench it is enjoyable to shoot and not too punishing on the shoulder.
I live in Northern Utah and hunt mule deer and elk. I am mid 50's and it seems that each fall maybe the hills get a little steeper and the brush gets a little thicker.
During last fall's elk hunt I decided I wanted another 300 WM for hunting. I want a long range rifle with great, consistent accuracy. I reload and feel comfortable in my reloading ability as I have the experience and use premium components. On the bench I am capable of very solid and consistent groups.
I have spent the past 5 months reading and studying and research some of the new new long range rifles trying to decide what I wanted.
Many of the so called "long range" rifles are 9 lbs. to start and when I visit the stores and pick up the rifles they are too heavy to me.

Here are 6 rifles that I looked at today and their weight:

Bergara Highlander: 7.8 lbs.
Christensen ELR: 8.4 lbs.
Christensen Ridgeline: 6.8 lbs.
Cooper Open Country: 9.0 lbs.
Cooper Open Country Lightweight: 7.0 lbs.
Cooper Timberline: 7.0 lbs.

The Christensen Ridgeline and the Cooper Timberline felt the best when I picked them up. They should quickly and easily and felt great to hold and to aim and swing.
The Christensen Arms Ridgeline is $1,749.99 (SUB-MOA guarantee) and the Cooper Timberline is $2,549.99 (1/2 MOA accuracy guarantee). Is there really $800 difference between the two?
(The Cooper Open Country Lightweight w / Proof Research carbon fiber barrel is $3,995.00 so $2,245.01 difference).

If I drop down to one of those lighter rifles, even with a muzzle brake, how much more felt recoil am I going to experience than with my heavy Sendero?
Is it going to be punishing on the shoulder?
Am I going to be able to spend time at the range practicing and not regret it in the morning?

Sorry for the long post - I greatly appreciate and value the knowledge and experience of this group!

If you're looking to go with a factory rifle I'd go with a Seekins Havak Element 300 prc.
It weighs 6 lbs! Yes it'll be shootable with a brake or suppressor.
Or you could build a 7mm on a defiance anTi action and send 195's around 2900 with minimal recoil.
I have a 6.5 lb 7 wsm and 195's are really mild with a crappy suppressor

 

[Bullmark]

I would buy the Cooper Timberline....in would also consider getting it chambered in a .280ai, but that's another subject all together. Coopers are very well balanced and most of the recoil is straight back into your shoulder....not a lot of jump. Their brakes may look very basic but, for some reason, they really tame the harder hitters.
Honestly, I was very surprised at how tame their "Backcountry" 6 pounder was after I shot one in 7 rem mag.
I have a friend who has 7 or 8 Coopers, and the quality of the build is outstanding. They all shoot factory ammo better than you'd expect....his model 52 280ai has shot the tiniest 5 shot group I've ever seen at 300yds.
I don't have a dog in the hunt but First Stop Guns, out of South Dakota, has the best prices by far.

 

[Highvoltage]

If your looking at getting a complete new rifle and are worried about recoil why not reconsider a different caliber. Something like a 280ai or the 270 wsm. I think many would agree that you won't be undergunned in the lower 48. Now to stay on topic... I have a 700 with a Ross shuler 4 port break on a 300 win mag and you can shoot it all day long off the bench with 180 class bullets. Of the rifles you listed I like the ridgeline. Just something to consider

 

[Tiny Tim]

While muzzle brakes are loud, they are extremely effective. I have Witt clamp-on brake on my pencil barrel 300 WM Savage and my 105lb daughter has no trouble shooting it with 200+ grain pills. You still know its there, but its not punishing. Plus there are far more aggressive/effective brakes out there.

 

[LaHunter]

Keep your 300 WM Sendero and train harder. You already have an excellent long range rifle, that is already very accurate. Just my $.02, but the internet is full of people talking about 7-8 lb scoped 'long range rigs', but a magnum rifle with a little weight is going to be a better tool at the moment of truth. I am mid 50's and my 7 mag is heavier than your rifle, but I just consider its weight as the 'cost of doing business'.

 

[Frog4aday]

Disregarding muzzlebrakes, and just going off rifle weight (11lb vs 9lb), using 180gr bullet @ 3,000fps, using 75 grains of powder, you can calculate recoil ENERGY and VELOCITY. How that translates to what you'll feel & what is tolerable to your body is unknown. Factors like LOP, stock shape, recoil pad types & thickness, & more all come into play. But running the numbers shows this:
11lb gun = recoil energy 24.14 ft/lb
& recoil velocity of 11.88 ft per sec

9 lb gun = recoil energy 29.5 ft/lb
& recoil velocity of 14.52 ft per sec

What I found with my titanium (light) .308 Win was the recoil energy was in the tolerable range (theoretically) but the recoil velocity was most unpleasant & not well tolerated. I love hunting with this rifle but hate bench work with it. It hurts more than my .338WM. That recoil VELOCITY will get to you.

I'd heard people describe the recoil of an appropriate weight .375 H&H mag as tolerable as it felt more like a big shove vs that of a .338WM, which comes back at what feels like a quicker speed. Having experienced both, I "get" what people are saying. There is a definite difference in the perceived recoil btwn the two.

Long way of saying, without a muzzlebrake (which I personally hate on a hunting rifle) you'll want to keep that rifle weight up if you want to keep the recoil tolerable. It won't be the energy change so much as the velocity increase that will bug you.

But if you are "good" with a muzzlebrake, you can probably have your cake (light .300 WM) & eat it (shoot comfortably), too.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Comparing apples to apples based solely on my experience with the aforementioned Sendero, I can say that the difference in recoil is definitely noticeable with lighter rifles....but I only own ONE rifle with a brake and that's my 338-416 Rigby Improved, believe me, it needs it.
Back to the question. I own 300's in a Win Model 70 EW, Kimber 8400, Kimber Super America, Rem 700 LR, Rem 700 Sendero and a F-class rifle in a Rem 700 action (20lbs).
The recoil difference is that the lighter rifles are sharper, but I don't find ANY of them to be obnoxious. Recoil gets less the heavier the rifles get.
I shoot big bores, 500 Nitro, 416 Rigby, Lott and a few others. I'm building a 45-120 at present to go in my Ruger No1.
The ONLY cartridge I owned, and emphasis on OWNED, was my custom 505 Gibbs that was just too darn light at 9lbs with a 600gr bullet @2250-2350fps, even at 2150fps it was a smack down rather than a push.
I find my 375 Bee rattles my teeth more than any other rifle, but the recoil pad is pretty hard.
As I don't use brakes, I can only assume that the recoil in any lighter gun will be a little more than your Sendero, oh and by the way, both my LR & Sendero fitted out run above 12lbs. My scopes run over 2lbs each and are interchangeable between rifles. The LR is heavier by a pound.
That is also assuming the brakes are of the same manufacturer.

Cheers.

 

[QuietTexan]

What kind of brake is on the Sendero? There is a significant difference the efficacy of various designs, so if you're using an inefficient one currently changing to a more efficient model could more than counteract the decrease in rifle weight.

Muzzle Brakes: Recoil Results for 308 & 300 Magnum

This post summarizes the results for the recoil tests ran on 20+ muzzle brakes using two 30 caliber ...

precisionrifleblog.com

Muzzle Brakes: Field Test Overview & Line-Up

This is the first post in a series that will cover the results from an epic muzzle brake field test....

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[LR19D]

I've got a Sendero 300 win mag that sucked shooting on the bench with 190 Bergers @ 3000 FPS. I put a 4 port brake from Muzzlebrakes & more on it, and yes.....it's loud as hell, but my accuracy is better due to not anticipating the recoil. This gun is my primary weapon for long range shooting & I also hunt with this rifle, usually over watching a field or power line in a tower stand, and to date my longest kill on an animal is 825 yds on a Pronghorn Antelope buck in Wyoming . I had a Kimber 8400 Montana in 300 wsm that would make your teeth hurt shooting 180 Accubonds @ 3000 FPS .....and trust me, if I could have put a brake on that gun, I probably would not have sold it .

 

[LR19D]

I have a very nice Remington Sendero 300 WM. It has a 26" fluted heavy contour barrel (0.820" Muzzle O.D.) and a muzzle brake.
The stock is composite reinforced with aramid fibers and has a wide contoured beavertail fore-end and full-length aluminum bedding blocks and a recoil pad.
Spec weight before the rail, rings and scope is 8.5 lbs.
I am guessing that currently with 3 rounds, muzzle brake, sling, 20 MOA rail, rings and a Leupold VX-3 6.5-20 x 40 scope I am easy 11 lbs.?
It is extremely accurate and groups very well. Sitting on the bench it is enjoyable to shoot and not too punishing on the shoulder.
I live in Northern Utah and hunt mule deer and elk. I am mid 50's and it seems that each fall maybe the hills get a little steeper and the brush gets a little thicker.
During last fall's elk hunt I decided I wanted another 300 WM for hunting. I want a long range rifle with great, consistent accuracy. I reload and feel comfortable in my reloading ability as I have the experience and use premium components. On the bench I am capable of very solid and consistent groups.
I have spent the past 5 months reading and studying and research some of the new new long range rifles trying to decide what I wanted.
Many of the so called "long range" rifles are 9 lbs. to start and when I visit the stores and pick up the rifles they are too heavy to me.

Here are 6 rifles that I looked at today and their weight:

Bergara Highlander: 7.8 lbs.
Christensen ELR: 8.4 lbs.
Christensen Ridgeline: 6.8 lbs.
Cooper Open Country: 9.0 lbs.
Cooper Open Country Lightweight: 7.0 lbs.
Cooper Timberline: 7.0 lbs.

The Christensen Ridgeline and the Cooper Timberline felt the best when I picked them up. They should quickly and easily and felt great to hold and to aim and swing.
The Christensen Arms Ridgeline is $1,749.99 (SUB-MOA guarantee) and the Cooper Timberline is $2,549.99 (1/2 MOA accuracy guarantee). Is there really $800 difference between the two?
(The Cooper Open Country Lightweight w / Proof Research carbon fiber barrel is $3,995.00 so $2,245.01 difference).

If I drop down to one of those lighter rifles, even with a muzzle brake, how much more felt recoil am I going to experience than with my heavy Sendero?
Is it going to be punishing on the shoulder?
Am I going to be able to spend time at the range practicing and not regret it in the morning?

Sorry for the long post - I greatly appreciate and value the knowledge and experience of this group!

I've got a buddy that has 2 CA Ridgelines, 28 Nosler & 6.5 PRC.....accurate as hell straight outta the box.