300 wby vs 300 win mag

Calvin45

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Yeah I shoot a .300 win mag. I have a load or two that are longer than book max. I also know that I have at least one load that is plainly over max pressure but I’m okay with that. I’m under no illusions that there’s no difference between a .300 win and a .300 wby on the basis of my pet loads.

This is sort of reminding me of how many claim that the .308 duplicates .30-06 ballistics, rendering the latter obsolete.

Now, that beings said, I would absolutely agree that anything one can be used for, so can the other.
 

Hugnot

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Which manual shows 3.6 coal with their data. I haven't found one yet for the 300 win. In essence, you want your custom load that is .260 longer than book
Just my point ! - there is no load data for the .300 WM having COAL greater than 3.4 inches. The .300 WM has been handicapped since its inception due to insistence that the round fit into a standard .30-06 length magazine requiring bullets be deeply seated into the case thus restricting powder capacity. Loading a extended length .300 WM to equal pressures of the .300 WBY will reduce velocity differences to 2-3% between the two.

SAAMI data:

Screenshot (285).png


Screenshot (284).png


Not much difference between both and this is with the shorty, powder capacity challenged 3.34 COAL .300 WM when loaded to SAAMI specs.

IMG_1594.JPG


I think .30's have a place in long range shooting - recoil, but 200 grain plus .308 bullets hit harder than 6.5's. Should I plan to get another .300 WM, I would look for a used Rem 700, magnum bolt face, long action, and build it into a single shot having a light Palma contour, 28 inch, 9 or 10 twist, stainless barrel. Might use cheap aluminum ADL trigger guard. It would be chambered to accept the above - 208 grain bullet. Cost comparisons between the two easily favor the .300 WM. Lapua does not make .300 WBY brass. The .300 WBY is sort of a celeb round.
 
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asd9055

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This is just too funny...
The ADA says it is against the law to discriminate against the handiccaped...and since the 300WIN is handiccaped from birth, by law it has to be equal or better than all 30 calibers. Heck, lets say it has the same power as 300RUM. And why stop there, lets say its the same as the 30-378. Its not its fault if the 300WIN was handiccaped at birth....
Thanks for making me laugh!
 

Hugnot

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This is just too funny...
The ADA says it is against the law to discriminate against the handiccaped...and since the 300WIN is handiccaped from birth, by law it has to be equal or better than all 30 calibers. Heck, lets say it has the same power as 300RUM. And why stop there, lets say its the same as the 30-378. Its not its fault if the 300WIN was handiccaped at birth....
Thanks for making me laugh!
My pleasure but I see handicapped spelling.

Winchester designed a nice cartridge but individual creativity can easily & safely improve the .300 WM . This is all about -

300 wby vs 300 win mag


The ADA does not include compensation for products that have lost stature to other products due to extensive marketing and promotional efforts for products that have marginal additional benefits. The ADA is intended to prevent handicapped entities from accessing various facilities. The ADA has no value criteria. Should the .300 WM be a person there would be no ADA claim as the .300WM has easily accessed the insides of thousands of gun safes, ammo counters at LGS', and hunting sites for deers & elks.

Extensive promotion and marketing is fact that we face every day. Possibly the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) might assist consumers who think these extensive marketing and promotional efforts have caused them to lose funds provided any complaints received are not regarded as loose by the FTC.
 
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Capt RB

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Just my point ! - there is no load data for the .300 WM having COAL greater than 3.4 inches. The .300 WM has been handicapped since its inception due to insistence that the round fit into a standard .30-06 length magazine requiring bullets be deeply seated into the case thus restricting powder capacity. Loading a extended length .300 WM to equal pressures of the .300 WBY will reduce velocity differences to 2-3% between the two.

SAAMI data:

View attachment 312190

View attachment 312191

Not much difference between both and this is with the shorty, powder capacity challenged 3.34 COAL .300 WM when loaded to SAAMI specs.

View attachment 312201

I think .30's have a place in long range shooting - recoil, but 200 grain plus .308 bullets hit harder than 6.5's. Should I plan to get another .300 WM, I would look for a used Rem 700, magnum bolt face, long action, and build it into a single shot having a light Palma contour, 28 inch, 9 or 10 twist, stainless barrel. Might use cheap aluminum ADL trigger guard. It would be chambered to accept the above - 208 grain bullet. Cost comparisons between the two easily favor the .300 WM. Lapua does not make .300 WBY brass. The .300 WBY is sort of a celeb round.
My point was you are comparing a modified coal with no sammi data to a correct 300wby handload. In my experience of running one for 23 years you are very hard pressed to beat factory velocities. Original MRP and Rl25 from the 80's would be close with drops but I didn't have a chrono back then. When I started with my prc with a radar I found shooting the same 190smk in a 30" I could exceed what I think was my speed by 300fps. Same barrel length though I think factory loaded speed wise the wby would beat my prc which runs a 230 berger well over 3100 at the ejector mark pressure level.
A 300win isn't going to get there no matter what you do to it at the same pressure and barrel length. Have a proper tapered lap put in a straight barrel in both and it is 200fps which is a good 06 to 300 win. Want more use the right case your face is directly behind that explosion.
 

Hugnot

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My point was you are comparing a modified coal with no sammi data to a correct 300wby handload. In my experience of running one for 23 years you are very hard pressed to beat factory velocities. Original MRP and Rl25 from the 80's would be close with drops but I didn't have a chrono back then. When I started with my prc with a radar I found shooting the same 190smk in a 30" I could exceed what I think was my speed by 300fps. Same barrel length though I think factory loaded speed wise the wby would beat my prc which runs a 230 berger well over 3100 at the ejector mark pressure level.
A 300win isn't going to get there no matter what you do to it at the same pressure and barrel length. Have a proper tapered lap put in a straight barrel in both and it is 200fps which is a good 06 to 300 win. Want more use the right case your face is directly behind that explosion.
There are no SAAMI data for a 3.6 COAL .300WM, thus no SAAMI comparisons may be made. The extended .300 WM 3.6" COAL would allow greater powder charges than a 3.34 COAL .300WM and thus higher velocities at equal pressures. My thinking is that the increased powder capacity of the 3.6 COAL .300 WM would put it closer to .300 WBY. Differences in velocities may only be 2-3 % meaning 75-125 fps, hardly worth finding and paying 2X more for pricey brass.

Thank you for responding.
 
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Calvin45

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There are no SAAMI data for a 3.6 COAL .300WM, thus no SAAMI comparisons may be made. The extended .300 WM 3.6" COAL would allow greater powder charges than a 3.34 COAL .300WM and thus higher velocities. My thinking is that the increased powder capacity of the 3.6 COAL .300 WM would put it closer to .300 WBY. Differences in velocities may only be 2-3 % meaning 75-125 fps, hardly worth finding and paying 2X more for pricey brass.

Thank you for responding.
I think we get what your saying and I don’t think anyone in their right mind questions that the .300 Winnie is more practical. It’s just not equal. Is it close enough to make it hard to justify the extra cost of the weatherby brass…that’s entirely up to you :)
 

Capt RB

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There are no SAAMI data for a 3.6 COAL .300WM, thus no SAAMI comparisons may be made. The extended .300 WM 3.6" COAL would allow greater powder charges than a 3.34 COAL .300WM and thus higher velocities at equal pressures. My thinking is that the increased powder capacity of the 3.6 COAL .300 WM would put it closer to .300 WBY. Differences in velocities may only be 2-3 % meaning 75-125 fps, hardly worth finding and paying 2X more for pricey brass.

Thank you for responding.
This is the problem you think that you can only do that to a 300win seat a 300wby long and you are back to a minimum of 200fps. If you think that you are going to beat Peterson brass with Peterson brass how does that work. IYHO the cost is not justifiable for a 200fps gain that is you and you alone.
 

Hugnot

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I think we get what your saying and I don’t think anyone in their right mind questions that the .300 Winnie is more practical. It’s just not equal. Is it close enough to make it hard to justify the extra cost of the weatherby brass…that’s entirely up to you :)
Never will be equal in velocity but other aspects like buying brass need to be considered. Found some 300WM brass at Grafs, $159.99, for 100 Lapua brand, $348.99 for 250 Peterson long type (head space on shoulder). Both about 40% -50% less than comparable quality .300WBY that has extremely limited selection.
This is the problem you think that you can only do that to a 300win seat a 300wby long and you are back to a minimum of 200fps. If you think that you are going to beat Peterson brass with Peterson brass how does that work. IYHO the cost is not justifiable for a 200fps gain that is you and you alone.
The .300 WM was handicapped by its designers in that it was intended to fit in a standard 06 length magazine resulting in long pointy bullets reducing powder capacity. The .300 WBY, "Tomorrows Rifles Today", never was burdened by that thinking, like modify the rifle to make it work vs. modify the cartridge to make it work. Extending the COAL of a .300WM to 3.6 from 3.34 provides a substantial increase in velocity & capacity. Seating bullets long in a .300 WBY would only provide extra space in the neck portion of the cartridge and a certain amount of bullet needs to be inside the neck. Increasing the COAL of the .300WM gets the bullet out of main body of the case allowing for a greater gain in capacity.

Roy Weatherby should have designed the .300 WM and Winchester, Remington, Ruger & others should have made their rifles with longer magazines. Rifle magazines may be easily modified to feed shorter cartridges.
 

Hugnot

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The handicapped 3.34 COAL .300 WM.

IMG_1596.JPG


and the better 3.60 COAL .300 WM

IMG_1599.JPG


Bullet is a 200 Hornady ELDX, good for shooting elks & deers. The 3.60 COAL version fits real good into my single shot FN action and accepts more powder of the extruded bulky type for higher velocities. I am a prudent hand loader & have been working with this since 2010 without a blown primer. Retumbo works very well, above the 78 grain limit that is indicated as compressed "C" for 200 grain NAB bullets in the Hodgdon manual. Before the present component emergency, I acquired about 300 pieces of .300 WM brass, some of 1X fired. I headspace on the shoulder and use a .005 feeler gauge to set up my F/L die above its selected shell holder that is kept in the die box. No case separations - long brass life. Rationed but continued use thru year at range.

Additional info;
 
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Swamplord

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so you tout the longer length of the 300 Win Mag will provide for substantial increase in velocity ? really ? show me some chronographed numbers along with what capacity gains you get ..... maybe 2 grains if that .... not much to see here just a bunch of bs from a troll, bent on seeing how many guys he can rile up,

also find me factory ammo loaded that way in 300 Win Mag & find me factory chambered rifles that way in 300 Win Mag ...

you're comparing an improved wildcat 300 Win Mag chamber to a factory standard 300 Wby ... with same components, well cowgirl.... two different cartridges that will load up differently .... build a custom rifle & handload the 300 Wby properly , it will obliterate factory 300 Win Mag ammo..... you're doing same , in reverse

well, I can do the same ......
my 300 LRH brass is shorter than the 300 Win Mag ..... Lapua, Petersen, ADG, Norma, Hornady and Bertram make brass for the 300 Norma ... along with RCC who make my 7mm LRH brass for an easy one pass neck up .....

for a much shorter case than your "long loaded" 300 Win Mag, my 300 LRH runs at 3225-3250 fps comfortably with 225 -230 gr bullets AND can be throttled back to match the 300 Wby, PRC, Win Mag etc, etc..... if the need arises, and has, for water jug impact, bullet penetration/deformation tests ......

meanwhile you're stuck with sub 300 Wby velocities in a custom chambered one off rifle and can't even match the factory 300 Wby

sounds like a fella can just get a 300 Wby and be miles (per second, ha !) ahead of your custom jobbie that doesn't impress

I like the 300 Win Mag and killed a bunch of moose, black bear, deer, wolves and a couple brown bears in Alaska, I also have the 300 Wby and the 30-378 Wby, along with a 340 Wby, which I prefer over the other 3 .....

most of my family & friends hunt with 300 Win Mags, have loaded hundreds of rounds of specially tailored hunting ammo for them over the years, including those who use the 300 Wby, 30-378 Wby, 300 RUM and now the 300 Norma & my improved version

not one person here has ever said the 300 Win Mag is indequate or lacking something ...... case capacity rules the velocity roost and it is clearly evident between the two, everything else you bring up is simply an old woman squawking about fluff that doesn't matter and equates in value to one dry mouse dropping ... if that

I still have my original pre-64 in 300 Win Mag along with a couple Rem 700's, got a bunch of Lapua & Peterson brass for it, probably have over 2k mixed mostly Rem, Win and assorted brass, have a bunch of factory Barnes Vortex ammo in 165 gr & 180 gr TTSX

def not dissing the 300 Win Mag that has served me very well, and many hundreds of Alaskan hunters

you're just rambling nonsense
 
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