300 RUM load development questions

[Tidesloe]

Hey guy's I've spent many hours on this site looking for valuable information, and have found much to work with
I have a 300 Rum newly rebarreled/ #4 Hart match grade, HS Precision stock, blueprinted action. I'm fairly new to handloading, but have learned many things the hard way. I have worked up a load with 180 gr Accubonds that are shooting well and showing promise. More testing to do on them.
I want to work on a 210 gr VLD load. Given the limited barrel life of the RUM I'd like to find a load withthe VLD in the least number of rounds possible. I have much to learn to become efficient in load development.
Heres where I'm at on it. I have new Nosler brass, and Redding competition dies. Right off the bat I am having concentricity problems with seating VLD's I also have copy of Bergers 1st edition manual. I still dont know wbere to begin. In the manual it seems to say on the same page to find your seating depth first, then work on charge. 2 paragraphs later seems to say the opposite. They also recommend .1 to .3 grain charge increments. It seems like I'm seeing an awful lot of rounds fired just as starters.
I only have acces to a 200 yd. Range so maybe a ladder test is out of the question. My thought is a 200 yd round robin test should mostly give the same result?
If I seat VLD's to mag length which would be my preference I'm already. 119 off lands. Given the seating depth sensitivity I'm still not sure how to begin.
I think the first step will be to solve the concentricity issue. I contacted Redding 2 weeks ago but have yet to get a response.
For you guys experienced with the VLD's I could use some good solid advice in how to begin on seating depth and charge in crements to begin my tests. I dont want to go through this barrel by the time I get a load down, or go through a couple hundred rounds and decide I need to go to something else.
I appreciate any help I can get.
Thanks

 

[canderson]

Not to sound like too much of a smart *** but, try some hybrids in the 0.015 off the lands. I think your load development will be a lot quicker. The vlds can be tricky in some guns.

 

[birddog67]

I had some of the same issues you had with the 210 VLD s for my 300 ultra . They are picky with the jump to the lands. With having to load mag lenght you will have to work hard at the seating depth . It's frustrating at times trust me I know . You might need to get a Wyatt's extended box put in they are around 200.00 this will allow you to load closer to the lands .

With your runout issue not sure what to tell you , I started loading with once fired brass full lenght resized then neck sized to .333

My runout is .003-.005 with Remington brass shot from my gun .

Like was Said if you want an easier time of loading bergers get you hands on some 215 hybrids , here is what they do out of my gun , good luck with you quest .

 

[7stw]

First things first! Your runout issue, is probably q result of your resizing process, and it is hard at times to correct it. Typically what happens is when you resize, and when you pull the expander ball back through the case, it sometimes " pulls " the neck a little out of square, or centerline, with the body of the brass. So, then when you seat the bullet, it is then exaggerated. You need to ensure that your expander ball is dead center of your die. Also , lubricate the INSIDE of the neck before the resize stage, that way, the expander will not bind, and that's usually what starts the distortion.
As to the jump, when I used to load VLD's in my RUM, I loaded to box length, then manipulated the load in small increments to find the "sweet" spot. The RUM is free bored by design, and unless you are single feeding, you can not touch or come close to the throat, and still fit into the box.
Read your instructions that came with your dies to ensure you are centered correctly with the expander, and that will help out a lot. Good luck, and enjoy the ride.

 

[birddog67]

First things first! Your runout issue, is probably q result of your resizing process, and it is hard at times to correct it. Typically what happens is when you resize, and when you pull the expander ball back through the case, it sometimes " pulls " the neck a little out of square, or centerline, with the body of the brass. So, then when you seat the bullet, it is then exaggerated. You need to ensure that your expander ball is dead center of your die. Also , lubricate the INSIDE of the neck before the resize stage, that way, the expander will not bind, and that's usually what starts the distortion.
As to the jump, when I used to load VLD's in my RUM, I loaded to box length, then manipulated the load in small increments to find the "sweet" spot. The RUM is free bored by design, and unless you are single feeding, you can not touch or come close to the throat, and still fit into the box.
Read your instructions that came with your dies to ensure you are centered correctly with the expander, and that will help out a lot. Good luck, and enjoy the ride.

What he said !!!

 

[Tidesloe]

Thanks guy's. I may try the hybrids, if I can find them. Have not been able to find them yet.;
As far as runout goes. I am starting with new Nosler brass ready to load. Already neck sized and necks are concentric. The runout is after seating. Maybe I need a different seater plug.
Heres another question, being relatively new to handloading. Can I resize without the expander ball? Is it a neccessity? It seems to me that it is what it is, and does not appear to be adjustable within the die body. Could it be left loose to in a since float in the die body?

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

First off, do what the others are saying and dry lube your necks with graphite or brush a bit of case lube through the necks and toss 'em it the tumbler for an hour. Then uniform your length at .010' under or so. If you can't square up your bullets the load won't be as good. That said I don't even have a concentricity guage; I get 1/2 moa in a good rifle without one with my rock-chucker.

I've been able to get **** near any pill I've put through my rem 300 rum to 1/2 moa quickly(usually 9 shots). I really like the 180 hornady with rl25 in rem brass lit by a 215. For long range I'm working with the 190 hornady and 225 hornady. All are capable of 1/2 to 2/3 moa consistantly in an un-braked 9# rifle.

 

[7stw]

Thanks guy's. I may try the hybrids, if I can find them. Have not been able to find them yet.;
As far as runout goes. I am starting with new Nosler brass ready to load. Already neck sized and necks are concentric. The runout is after seating. Maybe I need a different seater plug.
Heres another question, being relatively new to handloading. Can I resize without the expander ball? Is it a neccessity? It seems to me that it is what it is, and does not appear to be adjustable within the die body. Could it be left loose to in a since float in the die body?

My best guess is that if you are getting runout on virgin brass, then it may not have been true to begin with, which is probably the case, so I don't think that your seater is the problem. What ARE you using?
As far as can you use the resizer without the expander, that isn't possible, unless you are using bushing dies. The die , as it is designed, squeezes in on the neck, then expands it to a size that is just short of your nominal bullet diameter. That typically gives enough tension to hold the bullet in place until fired. If you remove the expander, the neck will be so constricted that you will not be able to insert your bullet, or it will be TOO tight. Take your time, and get familiar with your set up, and take measurements. It will come together.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

As far as runout goes. I am starting with new Nosler brass ready to load. Already neck sized and necks are concentric. The runout is after seating. Maybe I need a different seater plug.
Heres another question, being relatively new to handloading. Can I resize without the expander ball? Is it a neccessity? It seems to me that it is what it is, and does not appear to be adjustable within the die body. Could it be left loose to in a since float in the die body?

When you are seating a longer pill I make sure it is about square to start with, start it a bit, then rotate the round and finish the seat; don't ram it home like you are trying to beat it up. Take a bit of time and let it center itself.

As to the die and no expander ball; you'll have to inside mike a brass after trying it. Usually it's no unless you have collet dies as you'll end up more than the .002" under diameter that is about correct for neck tension; much more than that and you'll get runout during seating as the brass will stretch off center.

 

[Tidesloe]

Ok, thanks so I'll try try dry lube neck sizing only? I do have 180 accubonds shooting 1/2, but they're seated .020 off lands with no runout. Well past mag length. I havent chrono'd them neither have I shot past 200 with them. Tough to find anywhere to shoot beyond 200 around here. Its the only load that has printed the same each time I've shot them .The runout I'm only getting with VLD's.
So far the Accubonds have been consistent to same POI with 82 gr. IMR 4350., and 215M. These are shot with a 10 lb unbraked rifle off of Harris bipod, and rear bag.
What can you tell me about seating depth with your loads. Are you loading to mag length? How far off lands?
I still want to try the Bergers. Some say they're too difficult, others say no problems with them.
Oh and Lefty, I've got a left hand 7 STW being built right now. I'm ready for that one.

 

[Tidesloe]

My best guess is that if you are getting runout on virgin brass, then it may not have been true to begin with, which is probably the case, so I don't think that your seater is the problem. What ARE you using?
As far as can you use the resizer without the expander, that isn't possible, unless you are using bushing dies. The die , as it is designed, squeezes in on the neck, then expands it to a size that is just short of your nominal bullet diameter. That typically gives enough tension to hold the bullet in place until fired. If you remove the expander, the neck will be so constricted that you will not be able to insert your bullet, or it will be TOO tight. Take your time, and get familiar with your set up, and take measurements. It will come together.

I'm using Redding competition bushing neck die, Redding body die if FL sizing is needed. This is a new die set for me. I checked all the case necks for concentricity before loading and they showed no neck runout. The runout was in the bullet after seating with Redding competition seater. I'm starting the seating rotating 90 degrees seat a little more rotate 1/4 seat a little more and then another 90 degree rotation before complete seating. I'm seating Accubonds with no runout using this method
Its only with VLD's that the runout becomes an issue.
If I'm understanding correctly, I am using bushing dies so I can bush it down to correct diameter without using the expander
That nosler brass I never even ran through a neck sizer before loading, but will bushing neck size for next loading

 

[sharpshooterbr]

Sounds like the seater plug could be your issue. You can order a VLD seater plug from Redding. As for resizing without the expander ball in your bushing die, the only way you could get away with this is if you are neck turning your brass. If you are neck turning to a consistent neck thickness, then you could figure out what ID you want, then add in the wall thickness and this will give you the proper OD, and therefore, the proper size bushing to use in your die.

 

[Tidesloe]

I had some of the same issues you had with the 210 VLD s for my 300 ultra . They are picky with the jump to the lands. With having to load mag lenght you will have to work hard at the seating depth . It's frustrating at times trust me I know . You might need to get a Wyatt's extended box put in they are around 200.00 this will allow you to load closer to the lands .

With your runout issue not sure what to tell you , I started loading with once fired brass full lenght resized then neck sized to .333

My runout is .003-.005 with Remington brass shot from my gun .

Like was Said if you want an easier time of loading bergers get you hands on some 215 hybrids , here is what they do out of my gun , good luck with you quest .

Hey bird dog that grouping is good. I may try those hybrids. I've not found any anywhere. Any idea where I can get my hands on some?

 

[Tidesloe]

Sounds like the seater plug could be your issue. You can order a VLD seater plug from Redding. As for resizing without the expander ball in your bushing die, the only way you could get away with this is if you are neck turning your brass. If you are neck turning to a consistent neck thickness, then you could figure out what ID you want, then add in the wall thickness and this will give you the proper OD, and therefore, the proper size bushing to use in your die.

That makes sense sharpshooter. Thats why I'm here I have much to learn. I actually ordered a neck turning kit from Sinclair and then canceled that order. I thought, wait a minute am I loosing my mind. I dont even yet know what I'm doing and buying all this advanced stuff. Eating out of dumpstaers and picking up beer cans off the side of the road to afford al this lol
So my question now is, without turning necks should I even be using bushing dies?, or shoul I go back to the standard sizer dies.