.300 H&H Mag vs. .300 Win Mag in a magnum action

[CMP70306]

Hello Everyone,

I was looking into getting a custom rifle made that would replicate the old pre-64 Bull Gun however I am unsure of which cartridge to go with. On one hand I like the nostalgia of the H&H but at the same time I already reload for the Win Mag so I decided to base my choice on long range performance using the berger 215 hybrids and both the berger 230s.

In my searches online I have seen that when hand loaded with heavy bullets the .300 H&H can hang with the win mag and possibly be a bit faster due to less of the case being taken up. However since the rifle will be built on a magnum action even if it is a .300 Win Mag I began to wonder how the win mag would stack up if it was loaded to a COAL of 3.6? Since I have very little experience shooting the win mag loaded long and none with the H&H I decided to come here and request information from you guys, any and all information is appreciated and thank you in advance.

 

[highridge1]

The Win mag is much easier to work with for OAL and much easier to find brass. Brass can be a real pain to find for the H&H.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Hello Everyone,

I was looking into getting a custom rifle made that would replicate the old pre-64 Bull Gun however I am unsure of which cartridge to go with. On one hand I like the nostalgia of the H&H but at the same time I already reload for the Win Mag so I decided to base my choice on long range performance using the berger 215 hybrids and both the berger 230s.

In my searches online I have seen that when hand loaded with heavy bullets the .300 H&H can hang with the win mag and possibly be a bit faster due to less of the case being taken up. However since the rifle will be built on a magnum action even if it is a .300 Win Mag I began to wonder how the win mag would stack up if it was loaded to a COAL of 3.6? Since I have very little experience shooting the win mag loaded long and none with the H&H I decided to come here and request information from you guys, any and all information is appreciated and thank you in advance.

If you want a performance .30 cal that will out-run both of them, look to the .300 Ackley Improved Magnum. It's based off the full-length .300 Wby Mag.

 

[mountainman56]

I have always wanted and still plan someday to have a 300 H&H. Just something about the nostalgic old cartridge that appeals to me. There is some changes need to be made to accomodate the longer cartridge making the 300 Win mag the EASIER choice......but......I still want one.

The 300 H&H has the added benefit of shooting the lighter bullets well also. All in all I believe between the two it just comes down to which one do you want.

 

[CMP70306]

MudRunner2005: Thank you for the suggestion however I live is PA so unless I buy the next farm over I'm limited to under 1000 so that cartridge would be a bit over kill for me though if I do get that farm I'll have to look into it.

mountainman56: I've wanted to get one of the old pre-64 Bull Guns in .300 H&H ever since I read Point of Impact 6 years ago however the $3000+ price tag kept me at bay. Now that I'm getting close to saving up enough it occurred to me for that price I could build one. As for the lighter bullets I already have a Pre-War Model 70 in 30-06 that I use in the woods so this is more of a dedicated long range field gun. Although I will admit that 110 gr lehigh controlled chaos bullets sure make a mess of water cooler jugs at 3500 out of my current .300 win mag

 

[MudRunner2005]

MudRunner2005: Thank you for the suggestion however I live is PA so unless I buy the next farm over I'm limited to under 1000 so that cartridge would be a bit over kill for me though if I do get that farm I'll have to look into it.

mountainman56: I've wanted to get one of the old pre-64 Bull Guns in .300 H&H ever since I read Point of Impact 6 years ago however the $3000+ price tag kept me at bay. Now that I'm getting close to saving up enough it occurred to me for that price I could build one. As for the lighter bullets I already have a Pre-War Model 70 in 30-06 that I use in the woods so this is more of a dedicated long range field gun. Although I will admit that 110 gr lehigh controlled chaos bullets sure make a mess of water cooler jugs at 3500 out of my current .300 win mag

It's not that much larger, but it's a unique and fun caliber to play with. If you're wanting a full-size 300 H&H or .300 Win, it's a nice option that is right in there with the velocities and capacities of both. It's just a bit more unique.

It's honestly, the most simplistic and straight-forward of the Ackleys that I've messed with so far. Fire-forming is simple, and you just load up new .300 Wby brass and shoot it. No special trimming, or neck resizing, or anything.

The only special part of it is needing to send off 5 fire-formed cases to someone like John Whidden, to have a custom set of dies made.

If you want a dedicated LR field gun, that shoots flat, like a beanfield type rifle, I'd look into the 7mm STW.

Or, since you said you'd be under 1K yards, check out the 7mm RemMag. It'll take down any deer and just about everything else in North America inside of 1,000 yards.

 

[CMP70306]

What kind of velocities does the .300 Ackley improved magnum generate with the 215s and the 230s? I'm currently getting the 230 OTM to 2750 out of my win mag with a 26" barrel. Also how is the barrel life? I have heard that anything much bigger than the win mag begins to eat barrels at a much higher rate but I don't have anything that big nor have I worn out my win mag barrel so maybe you could give me an idea of what to expect?

Also most of my rifles are 30 cal so I'd like to stay in that caliber since I have a lot of time and money devoted to it.

 

[MudRunner2005]

What kind of velocities does the .300 Ackley improved magnum generate with the 215s and the 230s? I'm currently getting the 230 OTM to 2750 out of my win mag with a 26" barrel. Also how is the barrel life? I have heard that anything much bigger than the win mag begins to eat barrels at a much higher rate but I don't have anything that big nor have I worn out my win mag barrel so maybe you could give me an idea of what to expect?

Also most of my rifles are 30 cal so I'd like to stay in that caliber since I have a lot of time and money devoted to it.

I haven't had a chance to chrono my loads. I stopped shooting during the summertime because it gets so **** hot around here, and I haven't been able to get back out to the range to finish load development. I'm shooting the Berger 210 VLD's, so I should be able to give you a good idea what a 215 will be like. I will let you know when I get the chance to chrono. I am anticipating over the 3,000 mark.

Barrel life should be ok. I won't say great, but it should be close to the .300 WM.

Barrel life is one of those things that's really hard to guess, becuase LOTS of different factors play into it. If I tell you 2,000, and it only lasts 1,500 you're gonna get mad at me, and then think I'm full of crap. So I try not to give barrel life expectations in actual physical numbers, but you should easily be able to get 1,500+ rounds out of it. I mean, there's guys who have gotten 1,500+ out of a 7mm STW, and it's even hotter than the .300 Ackley, and the Ackley has a larger bore diameter, therefore the flame isn't as concentrated, so the throat should last even longer. I haven't even come close to wearing out my barrel, as my rifle is very new, and has less than 100 rounds through it so far. But I will keep everyone informed.

 

[HARPERC]

My Pre-war Model 70 in .300 H&H always gave the 200 Accubond 2900+ fps, in a 26" barrel, and took many rounds to shoot out.

I have a magnum length .300 Winchester, just getting up to doing the chrony work.

The issue really isn't performance/velocity the H&H was a partner that never failed me in making some good memories. Never finicky about what was stuffed in it.

From a practical stand point ask will a 200-215 grain bullet at 2850-2950 perform the tasks you wish.

If you want to use the 230 grain bullets the .300 RUM is where you should be.

The .300 Winchester has earned it's place as an international standard.

The H&H is about sentiment, I miss having one in the safe, and it really doesn't give up as much in the field as it's age would have some believe.

Component, and factory ammo availability does suck a bit more than the others.

At some point I'll put a 28", fluted, muzzle braked, match grade H&H together. It's not alway about fps.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Here's a good chart for comparrison.

The differences in the .300 Ackley vs the .300 AMU is virtually non-existant. They are for all intensive purposes, the same exact cartridge with a different name. I believe the only difference is that the AMU might have a slightly taller shoulder angle. It appears to have a 30-degree shoulder, whereas the Ackley has a 40-degree shoulder. I could be wrong, but, that's what it looks like when comparing the 2 in the picture below.

Also, the AMU was developed by the AMU - Army Marksmanship Unit for sniper comps, and the Ackley was designed by....Well.... P.O. Ackley. So, it comes down to 2 different people's takes on the same exact cartridge.

Not sure which came first, the chicken, or the egg....But I would guess the Ackley came about first, since the AMU wasn't around before 1956. But that's also just a guess.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Do whatever floats your boat. H@h brass has actually been easier to find in the run on everything mess that has been going on for the last two years. My brother has a #1 in 300 h@h; I have a remmy bolt in 375h@h. Neither of us will be getting rid of our rifles.
The 300 h@h is just about exactly the same case capacity as the 300wsm, so you can poach load data if you start low and work up properly.
The 300 win is as much a world standard as the '06, 7mauser, or 375 h@h. It's nearly too boring to use, but I have one that is very good.
If you want 3K fps with a 230, you should look past the belted's including the Ackley, win, and roy and step up to the 300rum.

 

[CMP70306]

I have looked into the .300 RUM however, like the .338 Lapua as well, it is simply more rifle than I will ever really get to use. I live and hunt in PA and due to all the populated farm lands I'd be hard pressed to find anywhere that I could really shoot over 700 yds unless I bought the farm next to me so I'd be using the extra powder and velocity for very little gain. That was the main reason I'm trying to stay in the size range of the .300 Win Mag and .300 H&H.

 

[Greyfox]

I own both and they are accurate shooters when hand loaded with traditionally designed bullets, and will produce similar accuracy and velocity. When loading the long, heavy VLD's which can require that your bullets be loaded closer to the lands, the H&H in the older Model 70 chamber could be problematic. Brass for the H&H is harder to find. While both can work, for serious shooting/hunting at long range, I would go with the 300WM. IMO..

 

[Tumbleweed]

I have loaded Berger 215's in a friends Rem 700 300 Win with a 26" barrel. The best velocity we could get out of it and maintain good accuracy was 2,860fps. I know others have done better. I have an old Rem 721 300H&H that I restored for my kids to use for elk and deer. I load the 215's in it as well. It tops out at around 2700fps no matter what powder is used. Not sure I would say the H&H is the equal of the 300 Win with heavy bullets. To say it's between a 30-06 and 300 Win Mag may be more accurate. Nevertheless, it's a fun old gun to shoot and is a darn good shooter at .75MOA on paper to 880 yards.