30-338 Lapua short?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Michael Eichele, Dec 14, 2003.

  1. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Ok guys, lets hear your opinions, ideas or thoughts in general, no wrong answers just what ever you think or have to say about any experiments or experiance with such an idea.

    I am having a rifle put together, and while I am still waiting for components to arrive I still havent settled on any 1 particular chambering. I am kicking around the idea of a shortend 338 Lapua case necked down to 308. The case would be "improved" in desighn. Length of case would be 2.105" and loaded rounds would be 2.930" in a slightly lengthend 700 rem sort action. I suppose it would be similar to the Lazzeroni 7.82 Patriot, but a little longer and maybee wider at the shoulder. I am thinking it might drive a 178 AMAX at around 3300-3350 FPS [​IMG] ?? Maybe. Barrel is a 12 twist Lilja 308 cal bore to finish @ 27" (#7 straight taper) Any thoughts or comments?? Anyone ever shoot such a thing?

    The goal is to keep the action short and get higher velocity than my 308 win. The goal is also to build somthing short that would deliver faster velocities than the 7.82 Patriot without going to a barrel longer than 27". This rifle would take blk bear to 600 yards and dall sheep to 1k Not interested in bullets heavier than 190 SMK. (Potential bullets to be used: 165 "X", 178 AMAX, 175 SMK, 190 SMK, and the 155 Palma for sheep only.)

    Let me know what kind of absurd idea you all think this is, or not and why or why not. If any body has any ideas for "improving" this idea lets hear it.

    Thanx [​IMG]
     
  2. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

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    I've got no problem with long actions. A MUCH easier and less expensive project would be to build a rifle in 300 Tomahawk. But then again that wouldn't be half as much fun either. [​IMG]

    VH
     
  3. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Michael,
    Here's one Phil sent me, 30 Phil he calls it. He used the 416 Rigby case and shortened it to 2.050" on the first one, the second design has the radiused shoulder and is 2.150" long.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Brent,

    Those look good, where might I get a little more info on that?? Ballistics and case capacity, stuff like that.

    Thanx
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    First thought is, why the short action? Touted benefits are lighter weight and portability, which don't sound like an issue in a straight-taper long-range gun like this.
    You won't beat the RUM except in cost. And even the WSM would give you 3150 fps in a 27" tube.
    One issue to consider: the only way to get more room in a short action is to increase the casehead, which in turn increases boltthrust.
    See Dan Lilja's comments on his site about the worries of opening the Rem to Lapua dimension.
    Also, check with your smith on feeding issues with this big case before you get too far into it. That might make up your mind quick.

    But if neither of these things bother you, and you have a reason for using the short action, I say go for it. I'm a bit wildcat crazy myself, and have something similar on a back burner, for a 1000yd BR rifle.
    Mine's 2.35" long, body is ~1.83", 35 deg shoulder, .35" neck, 3.35" COL. Designed around the 200-220 match bullet range (~1.5"), and should hold about 90-92g of water underneath.
    I expect it to be a stress-free 3k fps with a 30" tube. I'm not concerned with feeding. Theoretically longer barrel life from lower peak pressures due to the big case. Capacity will be just under the 300 RUM.
    You could get the same capacity from a 2.6" 404-based round, something like a long-necked 300 Dakota throated for a 3.6" action. This would really be the same as the Ultra without the wasted space, when using these long bullets.
    The difference in cost of brass alone is making me lean heavier toward this one. Alos the greater ease of making a repeater.
    I do like the short/fat idea for accuracy, but I also like the idea of having money left for bullets!
    Bottom line: if similar-performance standard rounds won't float your boat, consider the boltthrust argument, and if that doesn't concern you, figure lowest expectable performance, and if you're ok with that, do it to it.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Having said that, I've decided to modify and bring to a closer burner my own similar project.
    It's 2 1/3" long and improved, 1/3" neck, 35* shoulder, 1 5/6" body, and ought to be very much like the 30 Phil above, but with long neck. A bit less capacity using the Lap case, perhaps. Throated for the 190's and up.
    This might be a good time to confess to you all that I'm a die-hard Winnie fan, and I plan to bastardize a 300 WSM for this little toy. The 24" bbl won't tell us much about the round, but it should give me the go/no-go on having a longer, fluted, braked barrel put on with an A4 stock and so forth. [​IMG]

    To answer my own Q about "why short action," I will be hopefully keeping it all under 8# loaded. That SA will trim a few precious ounces. The M70 is not known for light weight.

    [ 12-22-2003: Message edited by: youngun ]