30-06 long range Model 70 target

[112Savage]

Hello all,

I've lucked into a 1970 Winchester Model 70 target with the marksman stock chambered in 30-06 (26" barrel). I'm wanting to use this gun a long range target/ hunting rifle. My initial thought was:
208 grain Amax
Reloader 17 or H4350
Winchester Brass
or
190 berger hunting VLD
H4350
winchester brass.

The rifle will be used as 95% target 5% hunting. Will the Amax be too heavy to see advantages above the 175-190 berger hunting VLD? My target velocity would be around 2700 I think. I notice German Salazar really doesn't go much above 200 grains; but he is shooting iron sights and is concerned with recoil.

share with me your experiences shooting the 30-06 beyond 500yds

 

[roninflag]

112- all my experience with the 30-06 is with a garand. German's experience is the most relevant i know of. awesome round. i wish i had lucked into one of those. i haved a 210 berger but that is out of a 300 wm. i am shure you are on the right track. roninflag

 

[angus-5024]

If your shooting mostly targets I would try the 215 hybrids if your twist rate will allow it. I think that the 7 grains of weight would be worth the b.c jump, you might not even lose that much M.V due to short bearing surface. Other than that I would drop to 190's.

I don't own an 06' so take it for what its worth, .

 

[Bart B]

I've owned a couple and shot more of Winchester's Model 70 target rifles. They are pretty good out of the box, but have one common issue. The groove diameters in them are a bit on the big size. Both the pre-'64 broach cut and post-'64 hammer forged ones. With groove diameters of .3082" to .3085", best accuracy has been with bullets at least .3086" diameter or bigger. None of them shot heavy Sierra Match King bullets at .3082" all that well. With .3092" diameter Lapua's they did great.

If you can find some good bullets at least .3085" diameter, you'll get best accuracy. Sierra's 155-gr. Palma bullets used to be .3084" but I don't know what they are these days. If bullet making companies will tell you exactly the diameters their heavy bullets are made to, that'll help. Otherwise, you'll have to take a good micrometer to the retailer and get permission to measure some.

All Model 70 .30-06 factory target barrels had a 1:10 twist. Perfect for 190 grain bullets through 220 grain bullets at the speed max loads shoot them at. A match winning and record setting load back in its day with custom match barrels was 56 grains of IMR4350 under a Sierra 200 grain Match King bullet.

 

[112Savage]

Bart,
Thanks for the great info and first hand experience. I'm headed to the store today since the gun show this weekend had no dies, powder, or bullets. I hope they have some heavies. I'm thinking of loading today and then shooting sometime next week if all things work out.

 

[112Savage]

So with components in short supply; I ended up buying Reloader 17 instead of H4350. yesterday I necksized the Lapua brass and loaded as follows:

Berger 190 Hunting VLD
CCi BR2 primer
0.003" neck tension
3.34" COAL
51 grains to 54 grains in 0.5 grain increments. Reloader 17

The Berger book doesn't have RL17 for the 190VLD so I extrapolated from Alliant's website. The low end is for a 200 grain Speer SP and the high end is from a 180 grain Speer SP.

My question now becomes, am I going to find appropriate velocity with these powder weights? Does anyone have experience with this combination? I can't find much definitive data with 190 VLD's and RL 17 in the 30-06.

 

[112Savage]

Bump to the top.

As an aside I sighted in the Weaver 24X with this rifle recently. I broke in the gun cleaning every shot for the first 5 shots. The last 3 shots hit dead center bull with a horizontal pattern of about 0.5". This was using factory Winchester Super X 180 grain SP's.

I'm pretty excited with this rifle.
as a side note, the rail underneath the forearm will not accept the same bipod/sling adapter that my 112 savage BT uses. I guess its just bags and a front rest for me.

 

[Sully2]

Hello all,

I've lucked into a 1970 Winchester Model 70 target with the marksman stock chambered in 30-06 (26" barrel). I'm wanting to use this gun a long range target/ hunting rifle. My initial thought was:
208 grain Amax
Reloader 17 or H4350
Winchester Brass
or
190 berger hunting VLD
H4350
winchester brass.

The rifle will be used as 95% target 5% hunting. Will the Amax be too heavy to see advantages above the 175-190 berger hunting VLD? My target velocity would be around 2700 I think. I notice German Salazar really doesn't go much above 200 grains; but he is shooting iron sights and is concerned with recoil.

share with me your experiences shooting the 30-06 beyond 500yds

Eons ago...in a galaxy far far away.....Anyway. Back in the day I owned same rifle in 300 H&H mag. Reloaders considered the 190 Sierra Match kinf to be the bullet for the 06 version and 200 gr and up for the magnum versions.

Personally Id drop down in weight a tiny bit and load her up good.
Mine was a bull barrel model and heavier that HE** but she would shoot

 

[mattri]

Will be watching this thread with interest.

 

[Bart B]

Back in the '50's when Winchester's earlier broach rifled barrels went into the .30-06 and .300 H&H target rifles, as well as those made after 1964 in .30-06 with hammer forged barrels, like yours, bullets from 180 to 200 grain weights all performed with about equal accuracy. The best scores at the longer ranges were shot with Winchester or Western 197 and 200 grain match bullets from each cartridge as the barrel's all had 1:10 twists and those bullets were .3087" to .3088" in diameter.

I tested a friend's circa 1971 .30-06 Winchester 70 much like yours but with its receiver properly epoxy bedded with Devcon plastic steel shooting Lapua D46 185-gr. match bullets with .3092" diameters with 57 grains of IMR4350. It shot about 1 MOA at 1000 yards as tested with a Weaver T20 target scope. Tried Sierra 180, 190 and 200 grain HPMK's and none shot any better than about 1.7 MOA. Test groups were 20 shots each.

Prior to 1972, the NRA long range target had a 20" V ring inside a 36" 5 ring that was black for the aiming bullseye. Since 1971, the NRA long range target's had a 10" X ring inside a 20" ten ring inside a 30" 9 ring inside a 44" 8 ring which is the black aiming bullseye. One needs much more accurate rifles and ammo these days to shoot perfect scores. It was the much better accuracy of the .308 Winchester and .30-.338 Win Mag over the .30-06 and .300 H&H that caused that.

However, with the right bullets in a good Win. 70 target rifle in .30-06, any powder that shoots them as fast and consistant as IMR4350 does will do the trick. Be sure to full length size your fired cases; nobody ever got consistant good accuracy with either cartridge neck only sizing their fired cases.

 

[TOM H]

Back in the '50's when Winchester's earlier broach rifled barrels went into the .30-06 and .300 H&H target rifles, as well as those made after 1964 in .30-06 with hammer forged barrels, like yours, bullets from 180 to 200 grain weights all performed with about equal accuracy. The best scores at the longer ranges were shot with Winchester or Western 197 and 200 grain match bullets from each cartridge as the barrel's all had 1:10 twists and those bullets were .3087" to .3088" in diameter.

I tested a friend's circa 1971 .30-06 Winchester 70 much like yours but with its receiver properly epoxy bedded with Devcon plastic steel shooting Lapua D46 185-gr. match bullets with .3092" diameters with 57 grains of IMR4350. It shot about 1 MOA at 1000 yards as tested with a Weaver T20 target scope. Tried Sierra 180, 190 and 200 grain HPMK's and none shot any better than about 1.7 MOA. Test groups were 20 shots each.

Prior to 1972, the NRA long range target had a 20" V ring inside a 36" 5 ring that was black for the aiming bullseye. Since 1971, the NRA long range target's had a 10" X ring inside a 20" ten ring inside a 30" 9 ring inside a 44" 8 ring which is the black aiming bullseye. One needs much more accurate rifles and ammo these days to shoot perfect scores. It was the much better accuracy of the .308 Winchester and .30-.338 Win Mag over the .30-06 and .300 H&H that caused that.

However, with the right bullets in a good Win. 70 target rifle in .30-06, any powder that shoots them as fast and consistant as IMR4350 does will do the trick. Be sure to full length size your fired cases; nobody ever got consistant good accuracy with either cartridge neck only sizing their fired cases.

I'm not sure what your point is about target size and as we ex-marine remember this Marine

Carlos N. Hathcock II

On May 20th, 1959, at 17 years of age, Carlos N. Hathcock II fulfilled his childhood dream by enlisting in the United States Marine Corps. His ability as a marksman was soon recognized by the instructors on the rifle range at Camp Pendleton where he was undergoing recruit training. Later, while based in Hawaii as a member of Company E, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, Carlos won the Pacific Division rifle championship. Following his assignment in Hawaii, Hathcock was transferred to Marine Air Station, Cherry Point, North Carolina, where he quickly found himself shooting competitively again. This time he set the Marine Corps record on the "A" Course with a score of 248 points out of a possible 250, a record that stands today. The highlight of his competitive shooting career occurred in 1965 when Carlos out-shot over 3000 other servicemen competing to win the coveted Wimbledon Cup at Camp Perry.

Are you saying that Carlos win @ Camp Perry 1965 for the Wimbledon Cup @ 1000yds had anything to do with target size? I'll be glad to come up to Loveland and have little talk with you and explain what Honor means which you seem to lack. PM with place to meet you I can't wait.

 

[Bart B]

Are you saying that Carlos win @ Camp Perry 1965 for the Wimbledon Cup @ 1000yds had anything to do with target size?

Yes.

His score was in the middle of all the winning ones during the 1960's for the Cup. Same shot hole placements on the new target would produce ho-hum scores with the hardware used starting in the early 70's.

 

[kcebcj]

So with components in short supply; I ended up buying Reloader 17 instead of H4350. yesterday I necksized the Lapua brass and loaded as follows:

Berger 190 Hunting VLD
CCi BR2 primer
0.003" neck tension
3.34" COAL
51 grains to 54 grains in 0.5 grain increments. Reloader 17

The Berger book doesn't have RL17 for the 190VLD so I extrapolated from Alliant's website. The low end is for a 200 grain Speer SP and the high end is from a 180 grain Speer SP.

My question now becomes, am I going to find appropriate velocity with these powder weights? Does anyone have experience with this combination? I can't find much definitive data with 190 VLD's and RL 17 in the 30-06.

I'm using almost an identical load.
30-06.....Pre 64 Win Mdl 70 26" Brux barrel 1-10 twist
Berger 190gr Hunting VLD
Fed 210 Primer
3.350 Coal
.070 Off
53gr Reloader 17
Lapua Brass
MV 2707fps "Proved"

Tested to 54gr and the chrono was reading around 2830fps. Quick load says you can push it to 55.5gr with a velocity of 2820. When I stopped at 54gr it was 85 degrees and was makin me a little nervous

 

[TOM H]

Yes.

His score was in the middle of all the winning ones during the 1960's for the Cup. Same shot hole placements on the new target would produce ho-hum scores with the hardware used starting in the early 70's.

After you finished 20yrs in the navy never winning the big ones and your poor shooting on the palma team what next to last place what good was that target you shot at. You never set any record or gained any fame and you sure didn't make the 92 Palma team much less coach anyone.

Seem to me your always bad mouth someone else even your palma team members and others that shot better than you. I got to admit you can type must be one of those ***** navy types.

As you know I live little over hr from you so no problem on my end meeting you if you feel up to that and just remember that.