30-06 AI questions

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by vendetta333, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    im thinking of a good supplementary cartridge to the 260rem. i'd like to shoot 190vld's. the ballistics on the 260 are amazing for paper out to 1k, and deer to say 700 with perfect placement, i;d limit it to probably round 500. but was looking for something with a touch more pop without stepping up to the magnums. i'd like to make it a 30 cal. thoughts on the '06AI? other suggestions/ i'd like t get about 200 yards better killing range out of it. thanx for all info! i would really appreciate load data if anyone has any. preferably based on a 26" barrel. again thanx for all info though!!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  2. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,175
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    My dad has a 30-06AI, but unfortunately has yet to shoot it. You should be able to push a 200-210 bullet right around 2650fps. It will compliment the 260 nicely. I would use a 26 or 28 inch tube with a 1:10 twist. Using magnum based powders like Ramshot Hunter, and Magnum, H4831, H1000, Aliant RL19 and 22 would probably work best. You will be able to take game especially deer to 1000yds with good shot placement. The 06 standard has a good history of long range target and hunting success. You may be able to push the 190 Berger to around 2750-2800fps. Hope this helps.

    Tank
     
  3. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,608
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    The 30-06 is iteslf a great cartridge and I have nothing against the '06AI, but have never used it.

    Some might argue that adding MV to push the 30-06 or '06AI an extra 200yds is the same as going to a magnum. ...unless you're concern is with belted brass.

    I personally would lean towards the 300WM or WSM. A brake and/or light loads will overlap with what the AI can do. Or, you can go hot and outrun it.

    -- richard
     
  4. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    well, im thinking double duty as comp and hunt. so the less punishment the better. and better bras stability, and less powder. i'd like it to be long action as i'm thinking of one savage short action, and one long. multiple barrels. and absolutely a 26" tube. anyone else got anything? the '06AI sounds dead on if i can get 2800 flat with a 190 out of the 26" barrel. all knowledge and info greatly appreciated! :)
     
  5. TOM H

    TOM H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,139
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Don't mind me saying this but to get the velocity you want from a 30-06AI your going to be more than likely at max load. Sure your going to save some on powder not sure of the recoil why not go to a 300mag have alittle extra case capacity/load density and not push to max loads.

    I did the 30x280AI instead of 30-06AI was an interesting project wasted the cost of a chamber job plus barrel just didn't like the case. I'm sure others my have a different opinion.
     
  6. BRIT

    BRIT Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Hi
    I run a 30-06AI. Rem action, Lilja 26" 10 twist. I love it. Very accurate. Currently using a 175 Berger Hunting on top of 61 grains of N160, Lapua brass and Fed210m primer for 2975fps.
    Furthest it has taken Deer is 360 yards but it knocks seven shades out of our 900 yrd Gong.
    This load is safe in my Rifle, can i suggest you start 10% lower and work up?

    Brit.
     
  7. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    load development would be safe, starting 10% less of course. and 2800 flat is the goal, may have to switch to 185's but that's the goal. i thought the 280, was just a 30-06 necked down? so wouldn't the 30-280ai just be the same as a 30-06ai? correct me if i'm off.
    and i don't like belted mag's as i've now been reading about the problems with the heads, and heard some personal accounts of case head problems.
    anyway, thanx all for info, plz keep it coming!
     
  8. panama

    panama Active Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    when i was working for bo clerke at clerke arms int. in raton nm. during one of our breaks he related a story about a 4 grove springfield bbl that just shot the lights out, bo and another match shooter decided to check this relic out found it started out being a 10 twist but as they found it had become almost an11 from wear he said. i asked him if an 11 twist left hand made any sense to him, i was running the monomatic green monster at the time profiling match bbls for the teams,m14s. bo told me after work we'd set up and pull a couple of left hand twist bbls. i bought both those bbls built a ai 3006 got the reamer from dave at pacific. worked up some loads. best was 58.gr.of 4831 imr that was made in 1974 i got from ron troyer at the whittington center he had about 6 lbs. i like hornady bullets the 190 bt. spire pt. i found out early on that win. brass is about 16.gr. lighter than fc. or rp. im running pretty hot with 58. gr. imr 4831-fed 215 prim. rem cases l.o.a. for my chamber is 3.315. velo. is 2945 acc. is excellent. same load but useing 180 speer grand slams velo. 3022. longest shot was a cow elk at 420 yds. she never untracked. to me if you hand load and neck size only, brass lives longer ihave fired one set of LC-69,s 29 times. those same cases are now loaded for my son's 338-06AI. bo always told me that damn 4831 is 20 mm powder you should use 4350 but me being who i am, thought if it ain't broke don't mess with it. truth is to me bo clerke is THE GUNSMITH, by the way for those that don't know carlos hathcock did not win the 1000 in 65 bo clerke did.i saw the trophy in the shop.
     
  9. TOM H

    TOM H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,139
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Here is what I did. I had a 280AI build for the wife I'd picked up a donor was a new Rem 700 from Wal-Mart in 30-06 had a 24" barrel this action was going to be for my 280AI.

    I haven't shot a 30-06 for about 20yrs and there was new data from Hodgdon for a load was max 60gr/IMR-4350 with 165gr bullet @ 2938fps. I decide to shoot the rifle and get same data and I worked up to that max load with 165gr bullets and I got 2940fps.

    Instead of building a 280AI I did the 30x280AI with 26" long barrel again with that rifle I worked up to a max load of 60gr/IMR-4350 with 165gr @ 3074fps and in that rifle I went to 62gr for 3148fps.

    So I decide what if I build a long barrel say 27" 30-06 what kind of velocity would I get so I had a 30-06 build with a 27" Lilja with 1/11 twist barrel and that max load of 60gr/IMR-4350 with 165gr bullet gave me 3105fps. I played around with H-4350 in that rifle and I could get with 180gr partition 2970fps. to me that rifle was better than the 30x280AI accuracy wasn't a problem and honestly I didn't shoot 180gr bullets in the 30x280AI. Now all this happen back in 2007/2008.

    I never hunted with either rifle it just one of those thing you do sometimes. Myself the gain I got when I compared 30x280AI to the Lilja barrel 30-06 wasn't all than much and I decide I didn't want to waste anymore powder shooting the 30x280AI.

    I have a new respect for the 30-06 I now shoot a 30-06 with a Bartlein 5r barrel @ 25 1/2" long
    and that max load of 60gr/IMR-4350 give me 3066fps and my deer/elk load with 180gr Partition give me 2893fps.

    We have a late season cow elk hunt end Nov 1st week Dec I like to hunt if I get drawn so had another 30-06 build used the 30x280AI action for that and the lilja barrel 30-06 action is now a 30-33mag.

    I'm not sure why you don't like belt mag you can have them headspace on the shoulders instead of the belt that what I do.

    I would buy some bullets you want to shoot and make up some dummy rds if you want I think I've still got some of those 30x280AI cases and you could see how the load density is and I may have a 300mag case just PM me your address.
     
  10. Dano1

    Dano1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    584
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Vendetta,

    I have a .30-06 AI built off of a 1971 Remington 700 ADL. Only thing left of the origional is the Action and Bolt. Specs are: Trued and Blueprinted Remington 700 Turned into a BDL. Timney Trigger, Kreiger 26" #6 Contour 1-10" twist. It's in a Fajen Laminate stock. It's wearing a Leupold MK 4 Precision Rifle 4.5-14x40mm SF scope.

    I built this rifle 5 years ago and it is my go to rifle. I have 2 loads that I shoot currrently out of this rifle. 1st load is the 168g Berger VLD using H4350 and CCI BR2 primers. It shoots the best less than 1/2" @100yds. Velocity is at 3125FPS. (10 shot average).

    The second is the 190g Berger VLD also loaded With H4350 and CCI BR2 primers. This shoots 3/4" @ 100yds. and Velocity is 2935FPS (10 shot average)

    In Both cases Factory Remington brass was used with load development and I Tweaked my load data to use LC & LC Match military brass and I found that 1 grain reduction is needed to keep pressure in check and to get the same velocitys.

    I have taken 2 deer with the 168g Berger VLD one of which is in my signature line. I have yet to hunt with the 190s, but I've shot them at 1000yds and they did well for me. I have to shoot them a bit more for practice.
    Below are photos on of the Rifle and the second is of Cartrdges I load for my personal rifles. For comparison purposes. L to R, 7mm STW, .30-06 Ackley Improved, 6.5-06 Ackley Improved, .243 Ackley Improved, and the .243 Winchester.

    Dans guns II 019.jpg

    Dans guns II 009.jpg

    This .30-06 AI is the most accurate of the 5 with the .243 Winchester being right close.

    The .30-06 AI loaded correctly and Built right will do what you are asking.

    Dan
     
  11. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    thanx to all of you guys for the great info! i think with this so far, i can make a clear decision. the '06 Ackley sounds like the round for me! that and most ai rounds just look so darn cool! lol again thanx guys!
     
  12. panama

    panama Active Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    i truly injoy shooting my a.i. (fire forming cases is not that difficult, Ken Howell's excellent book custom cases is loaded with info.well worth the read) good shooting vendetta, the a.i.'s excell with the heavy for caliber bullets in my humble opinion.they are by no means magnums but each bbl has it's own limits as you will see.the 30 x 280 ai is a longer case =2.500 stay with the same cases whether win/rem/or fed or military,lake city are my prefered mil. cases.
     
  13. strombeckj

    strombeckj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    585
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2010
    I will add another +1 for the 280AI. The 30-06 is a great round but pales in comparison to the new rounds built on the same case that have come behind it. a 180gr-200gr 7mm bullet will buck the wind 20% better than a 30cal in the same weight and deliver the same energy with less recoil. + you get the cool looking shoulder. Cost of components is a wash, both sets of dies, brass, bullets are OTC. I would suggest you run the numbers and then make your call. However there is no doubt both will do what you are asking of it.

    IMO,
    Jon
     
  14. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    would you guys say that lapua brass would be the best to start with if not military brass?