30-06 Ackley Improved

[kcebcj]

I have this Pre 64 Mdl 70 30-06 that I'm going to re-barrel and was going to leave it an 06 because of the mild recoil and it has sentimental value. Got reading about the Ackley Improved version and kinda like that. I all ready have a Brux 30 cal barrel so there is really no added expense to chamber for the Ackley.

If you compare the standard 06 using the Nosler Reloading Guide you can see an increase in fps of 100 to 120 depending….. Now the test rifles used a 24" barrel so if I leave the new barrel 26" do you fellas that know think I could pick up another 50 fps giving somewhere between 150 & 200 fps total increase over the standard 06? Also wouldn't the head spacing be more consistent because of the 40 degree shoulder thus making a more accurate rifle?

I know and understand that's not much but it would increase the usable range by 100+ yards and it would be a solid elk getter at 700yards using the 200gr Accubond.

 

[Derek M.]

I have this Pre 64 Mdl 70 30-06 that I'm going to re-barrel and was going to leave it an 06 because of the mild recoil and it has sentimental value. Got reading about the Ackley Improved version and kinda like that. I all ready have a Brux 30 cal barrel so there is really no added expense to chamber for the Ackley.

If you compare the standard 06 using the Nosler Reloading Guide you can see an increase in fps of 100 to 120 depending….. Now the test rifles used a 24" barrel so if I leave the new barrel 26" do you fellas that know think I could pick up another 50 fps giving somewhere between 150 & 200 fps total increase over the standard 06? Also wouldn't the head spacing be more consistent because of the 40 degree shoulder thus making a more accurate rifle?

I know and understand that's not much but it would increase the usable range by 100+ yards and it would be a solid elk getter at 700yards using the 200gr Accubond.

hmmmmm. a PRE 64 model 70 and you are going to CHANGE it???? Are you certain you want to do that?

Ackley didn't improve much of anything with his modifications. JMO, but you'd be wise to leave that rifle alone. A 30-06AI is absolutely not worth it. My .06 shoots as well as a 308 and I have at least 5 loads that shoot sub and 1/2 MOA. The AI version will not improve a thing, IMO.

The ONLY AI worth having is a 280, with the 260 a close second but even the latter is a waste of time IMO. Just a wish from me but PLEASE don't change that pre 64 model 70. For the money you could get for it selling it you could build a really fine custom rifle, that is, if you want to part with it.

Here's the best advice I can give you: keep that model 70 as is and don't modify a thing. You want a 30 with a little more juice, get a 300 WSM, or Ruger 30 compact magnum. Before you change that rifle, I highly recommend you get it appraised.

 

[the444shooter]

+1,000,000,000

Why not just shoot the new Hornady Superformance loads? 165gr or 180gr at 100-150fps faster than factory. Exact same specs as the 30-06AI, and you don't have to change a thing on that desirable rifle!!!!!!

 

[Derek M.]

+1,000,000,000

Why not just shoot the new Hornady Superformance loads? 165gr or 180gr at 100-150fps faster than factory. Exact same specs as the 30-06AI, and you don't have to change a thing on that desirable rifle!!!!!!

I'm not so sure he knows exactly what he has in his possession!!

 

[kcebcj]

I'm not so sure he knows exactly what he has in his possession!!

Thanks for the responses. I do know what I have! I bought the rifle new in 1963 and have used it every season sense. Because of military ammo for practice way back then I burned out the factory barrel. There has been a lot of game taken and a lot of practice over the years and it is now on the third barrel and it's about gone. The stock on the rifle is number four. All except one have been replaced because of horse wrecks the exception a synthetic stock from Pacific Research when they first became available.

I ask a simple question and am told….. "I'm not sure he knows exactly what he has in his possession" Thanks for all the crap you fellas have just spit out!! I will consider your recommendations.

 

[Derek M.]

I ask a simple question and am told….. "I'm not sure he knows exactly what he has in his possession" Thanks for all the crap you fellas have just spit out!! I will consider your recommendations.

Jim you have my sincere apology. On a forum, we can't tell anything about the poster in many cases and sometimes folks have a real prize and just don't realize it. Now that we know the history of the rifle, then my recommendation is to keep it in 30.06 with your brux bbl.

I sure didn't mean to offend you.

Respectfully,

Derek

 

[kcebcj]

Jim you have my sincere apology. On a forum, we can't tell anything about the poster in many cases and sometimes folks have a real prize and just don't realize it. Now that we know the history of the rifle, then my recommendation is to keep it in 30.06 with your brux bbl.

I sure didn't mean to offend you.

Respectfully,

Derek

Derek M
Appreciate your response. That is the kind of info I'm looking for. You and four of my shooting buddies are in agreement. Well… "Ackley Improved" sounds good anyway. It will more than likely stay a stock 06.

 

[Derek M.]

Jim, I know exactly what you mean. Roughly 2001 or 2002 I had been reading about the 280AI and found quite a few articles about how it is darn near a 7mm Rem Mag, without the belt and it has a "cool" name and a bit of a "wow factor" when you say it. And that's really where the story ends...wow factor and beltless. Sure there's a little gain in velocity but brass forming, feeding problems, etc. and reality just sinks in where I began to think more practically. And common sense told me that converting a perfectly good 30.06 to a 280AI wasn't going to make one deer or pronghorn anymore dead for the ranges I was used to shooting anyway.

I can assure you, keeping that new Brux barrel chambered in the proven, historic caliber, 30.06 that has done more than just about everything else will serve you well for as long as you and that rifle will last.

If you are into cool, new stuff, then by all means, cut that chamber in a AI version of the .06. That is definitely personal preference. Me, I would not, no way.

Good luck with whatever your choice is.

One more point: I've been reading quite a bit about the 260AI in benchrest competition and it seems to be collecting quite the following by many shooters. I get more concerned about feeding problems in repeaters with the AI conversions. No shortage of stories with that problem.

 

[the444shooter]

Agreed with Derek--apologies for "ASSuming" that you were about to commit a horrible atrocity, but you left us with no background to your situation and rifle. I was in your boat about 10yrs ago, wanting more horsepower out of my .30-06 and thinking that having the Ackley was the best way to go, but then I realized that it did nothing more for my MPBR, barely affected maximum extended range, and brought forth new headaches such as fireforming brass. My advice, now knowing the history of the rifle, is to get a new barrel, 24 or 26 inches, load up some 180gr Accubonds, or shoot the new Hornady Superformance out of it. They're introducing the Interbond for 2011 loadings, and in 30-06 the 180 at ~2850-2900 would be a terrific load for it methinks. No fireforming cases, and the desired velocities. I don't believe you would get the necessary velocity out of the 200gr Accubond for reliable expansion--just too heavy.

Good luck, keep us posted, and show pics when you're done!

 

[Derek M.]

I recommend a 22" barrel. I can't tell you how much I love my light weight 700 30.06. 22" fluted Pacnor bbl on it. As far as bullet choices or factory ammo, I don't have any experience with Hornady's superformance stuff. I did read where primers were blowing out of the cases in some 270 ammo. But you sure will enjoy the velocity they are getting.

Interesting comment on the 200 AB. I loaded some over the heaviest charge of Re22 that would fit in the case for close range black bear hunting. I don't know yet how the load will perform, however.

Here's my go-to load for just about anything with my 30.06:

1. max load of H4350 with the Barnes TSX in 168 grain
2. max load of Reloder 19 with Barnes TTSX in 168 grain.

There's not one animal I wouldn't hunt with this except for the biggest bears. And I don't see that hunt coming in my lifetime. Here's my 30.06:

Pillar bedded factory stock, painted, with decelerator pad
trued 700 action
#3 SS Pacnor, fluted 22"
Leupold 4.5x14.40
blued, spiral fluted bolt
Jewel trigger set to 1 pound
built by John Noveske of Noveske rifle works

 

[kcebcj]

Derek M and the 444shooter

I really appreciate your input as I know nothing about the Ackleys. In the future I will list some history when posting a question when necessary.

The rifle as it sets now has a 22" Douglas barrel a Pacific Research stock and weighs 8.5lbs fully loaded ready to go. It's been my backpack rifle for quite some time but the barrel is almost gone and the stock has a crack right at the butt plate.

Here is what I have in mind for the re-build. McMillan HTG stock which I have, 26" Brux barrel #5 contour which I have. I am done back packing (live right in the middle of the best elk hunting in Idaho and don't have to)so looking at around a 10lb rifle used mainly horse back and from a quad cross canyon. The Ackley thing came up when talking with friends. It was about 50/50 for and against that's why I posted the question. Talked with the local smith tonight and it seems the Ackley would not be worth the effort. "shucks"

Now about the Accubonds. I took a 5 point bull a week ago at 457 yards using 165gr Accubond over 57gr 4350. Hit him twice and my son finish him with a neck shot. I did not hit him really good but it put him down. The next day I took a really good buck at 460 yards using the 200gr Accubond over 53gr 4350. That 200gr bullet did a job on him. Hit him mid section right behind the shoulder. He did a 50 yard death run straight done hill and piled up. Now the bullet did go clear through so don't know what the expansion was but he was torn up. I was impressed and surprised to see that much damage. I have taken a lot of bucks and the damage was above normal for that type of hit. If my memory is correct the velocities I got with the 200's over my chronograph was like 2450 with that 22" barrel. Next year with the re-built rifle I will test the 200g on a bull. I think with the longer barrel 26" and using RL22 might be able to get around 2750fps. If it's accurate that's a 700 yard elk rifle if the bullet does its job. Nosler says that bullet should perform down to 1800fps. We will see!

Again thank you guys. This is just the kind of info I was looking for.

 

[Derek M.]

Good luck with the rebarrel. I've been hearing and reading a lot of good things about Brux barrels. Glad they are producing quality barrels to add to our list of choices. I spoke with them on the phone about 2 years ago. Nice fellas and more than willing to talk on the phone.

I was under the impression the AB bullets were fairly soft in front and only bonded towards the rear, so I don't know why a 200 wouldn't expand readily from a 30.06. I agree with the Re22 thought as well. In fact, just for trial sake, you may think about a magnum primer as well. I would!

 

[the444shooter]

You might be able to get 2750 out of a 26" tube...I'm anxious to see your results. If you don't get the velocities with the 200gr, the 180gr at 2900 with a BC of .507 will be a great elk round too.

 

[Trickymissfit]

hmmmmm. a PRE 64 model 70 and you are going to CHANGE it???? Are you certain you want to do that?

Ackley didn't improve much of anything with his modifications. JMO, but you'd be wise to leave that rifle alone. A 30-06AI is absolutely not worth it. My .06 shoots as well as a 308 and I have at least 5 loads that shoot sub and 1/2 MOA. The AI version will not improve a thing, IMO.

The ONLY AI worth having is a 280, with the 260 a close second but even the latter is a waste of time IMO. Just a wish from me but PLEASE don't change that pre 64 model 70. For the money you could get for it selling it you could build a really fine custom rifle, that is, if you want to part with it.

Here's the best advice I can give you: keep that model 70 as is and don't modify a thing. You want a 30 with a little more juice, get a 300 WSM, or Ruger 30 compact magnum. Before you change that rifle, I highly recommend you get it appraised.

Parker Ackley improved the chamber for better control of brass flow and a more positive headspace. The 75 to 100 fps is a moote point. I'd absolutly say "leave the rifle untouched!"

Ackley's best improved rounds all came off the 7x57mm case when thinking in terms of velocity gain and brass flow. He felt the 7.62x51mm case was already an improved case in it's norm. So the only mods he did to the case design was to increase barrel life (the neck is too short to contain the vortex of the flame, and is thus hard on the throat). Ackley did several improved 30 caliber rounds that many big name gunsmiths have built wildcats off of. Probably his best known one is the .300 Ackley mag. (very similar to an 8mm Remington mag), but his favorite was the 30x57 improved.
gary