3 Groove Barrel ?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by dakor, Nov 27, 2004.

  1. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    654
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Has anyone had any accuracy problems with them? Do they shoot as well as a 6 groove barrel? Do you gain more velocity? Do they foul less?
     
  2. demarpaint

    demarpaint Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    394
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    IMO they are just as accurate as a 6 groove barrel, foul less, and last longer.I believe they offer slight velocity gains too.

    Frank D
     
  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    I have used 3 groove Lilja barrels with great results, they are as accurate a barrel as I have shot in my custom rifles.

    Only thing I will say is that in some of my 1-8 twist barrels in 22 and 6mm calibers, they seem to tear bullets apart in rounds like the 22-6mm AI or 6mm-284 when using the match type VLD bullets such as the Berger bullets and the A-Max bullets at less them top velocities.

    The Sierra Mks handle more speed.

    I have talked with many shooters who have fast twist small caliber rifles with big cases that shoot these bullets great at much hogher speeds then the 3 groove will.

    The only difference inthese set ups is in teh number of rifling so I assume this effect bullet integrity to some degree.

    If your going to built a fast twist, high velocity small bore rifle for use with the VLD bullets, I would go with a 5 groove or 6 groove barrel.

    With stouter bullets they perform amazingly well but on the thin jacketed bullets they seem to tear bullets apart faster then a 6 groove.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    654
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Thanks for the info guys. I was thinking of using a 3 groove 12 twist for another 375 H&H and a 3 groove 10 twist for a 300 win mag. In the 375 I would just be using hunting bullets like the 260 Accubond and X bullets. For the 300 win I would be using Hunting and match bullets. The main reason I am building the 300 win is to use the 200 grain Accubond. I was told that a 3 groove barrel will give you about 100 FPS faster then a 6 groove in equal barrel lengths. Is this true? If so with a 28 inch pipe on a 300 win you should be able to push that 200 accubond around the 3100 fps mark which would be a nice long range setup.
     
  5. brianwinzor

    brianwinzor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    201
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Fifty, Your helpful comments about the the 3 groove barrels and VLD bullets in 224's, just made me decide to order a Krieger rather than a Lilja barrel for my next .224 Clark.

    Once Richard Graves 85 grain and 85+ grain ULD bullets arrive, I will measure their length, and then decide whether to use a 1 in 7.7 inch, or 1 in 7.0 inch twist Krieger Barrel.

    I have heard several reports that the 7.0 twist can cause the 80 grain VLD bullets from Berger and JLK to come apart, but they will often work OK in the 7.7 twist. The 80 grain Sierra HPBT usually seems to shoot OK with either twist.

    It will be interesting to see whether the 130 and 140 .257 cal bullets he is sending me will stabilise in the 1 in 10 twist barrel of my 25/06 AI. The surprise report of them stabilising in a 25/06 has given me a little encouragement. Regards, Brian.
     
  6. demarpaint

    demarpaint Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    394
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    If you are considering a 5 groove check out the Mike Rock 5 R barrels.
     
  7. brianwinzor

    brianwinzor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    201
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Demarpoint, I am aware that Mike Rock barrels have an excellent reputation, but according to an acquaintance, they are reluctant to export barrels.

    As I live in Australia, it is simply a matter of choosing from those barrel makers who do export. Over the last 35 years, I have used numerous Shilen, about 2 Douglas, and 1 Ackley. A local rifle club imports Krieger barrels, so that is the reason, I was seriously considering their barrel.

    Maddco, who many consider to be Australia's best barrel maker, do not make a faster twist than 1 in 8 in 224 calibre. Regards, Brian.
     
  8. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    222
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    In 224 Clark you should have no problem at all stabilizing 80s in an 8 twist. If trying 90s then you may have to up it to 7 twist. 6.5 twist is required in a short barreled 223 Rem to stabilize the 90s though. FYI the 90s are made off 6mm jackets and hold up awful well. IE strong jackets. Even in my 3 groove Pac Nors.

    In fact FWIW I have a buddy thats an awful good shot that uses 9 twist barrels and stabilizes 80 bergers and sierras in 223 Rem AR15 with 20 inch tube.

    Jeff
     
  9. demarpaint

    demarpaint Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    394
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Brian,

    I didn't realize you were exporting a barrel, now I see where you are from. Too bad about the export issues w/the Rock barrels. Good luck!

    Frank D
     
  10. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    654
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Fifty so with the two setups I am going to make with a 3 groove barrel you dont think I will have any issues? Will a 3 groove shoot 100 fps faster than a 6 groove in equal barrel lengths?

    [ 11-29-2004: Message edited by: dakor ]
     
  11. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    222
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Dakor

    From real life experience in 223 rifles I gain 50-75 fps with a 3 groove vs 4 groove. You have to load differently for each barrel and the end result is if I was getting 2750 safely in a 3 groove with 90s, I could only safely get to 2650-2675 on average with 4 groove barrels.

    FWIW, Jeff
     
  12. brian b

    brian b Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    302
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2004
    Dakor,
    from my experience you will not gain the 100fps. you are looking for except by fluke. the 3 groove is awesome for extended throat life but added velocity is like asking the X-wife for a favor GOOD LUCK
    B
    p.s. I do have to agree with 50 driver 3 groove barrel's blow up Berger's at low pressures,use smk's and be happy
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    [ 11-29-2004: Message edited by: Fiftydriver ]
     
  14. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Dakor,

    You will have no problem with the 3 groove in the 300 and 375.

    I really like the 3 groove with the 300 RUM and 30-378 class rounds because of the extended barrel life.

    TO be honest, I do not really see an advantage with the larger bores except perhaps less bore fouling.

    I would agree with Brian B comments about velocity. While I have seen some slight increases in velocity compared to other barrels, I can not say for sure that it is because of the 3 groove rifling as opposed to other variations in the rifle set up.

    The 3 groove barrels do tend to run on the faster end of the spectrum.

    My favorite barrels in the 3 groove are Dan Lilja's barrels. These are very tight bored BR quality barrels and tend to be slightly slower on average compared to other barrels but bore finish is mirror smooth and accuracy is top notch every time so I have no problem not having the fastest barrel on the planet. The other features are well worth it.

    I would be suprised if you get a full 100 fps more velocity, from what I have seen, 30 to 40 fps is about all I have been able to tell but it is nearly impossible to measure this figure from one barrel to another with all the other variations that can effect velocity.

    Good Shooting!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)