2900 Fps .308?
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Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
CM stole the show for 12 years
Although I admit I have enjoyed the 308 during that time.
Although I admit I have enjoyed the 308 during that time.
Capt RB
Well-Known Member
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- Dec 1, 2014
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CFE223 and MR2000 if not the same powder is extremely close in composition. I'm running 2990fps with Rl15 and the 150 Lehigh with .750-1.0" 300yd accuracy. .8 mils up from 100yd zero. I get slightly better speed3030 with cfe. More importantly, I get 2707 with cfe223 and the 195tmk @2.940 coal.(single feed) with better accuracy and 8fps when I tested it. I have not done any temp sensitivity mapping with the cfe in my rifle yet due to having 28#s of rl15 and less than a 1/4# left of cfe.
2008 wow. I will say that if I put 46 grains of varget with a 168/175 in my rifle I.d need a hammer to open the bolt
2008 wow. I will say that if I put 46 grains of varget with a 168/175 in my rifle I.d need a hammer to open the bolt
Coyote_Hunter
Well-Known Member
I agree. My safe holds a .300BLK (AR), .30-30, .308 (AR), .30-06 and .300WM. If I want to push velocity I just step up to the next bigger cartridge. Safety first.
There are lots of new and improved things in the last 12 years.
Dr. Richard Gray
Well-Known Member
I use several different sites for reloading. Nosler Load Data, Hodgdon Reloading, Winchester, Vihtavuori, etc... As for the various powder brands, Nosler Load Data is probably the best, but they don't list pressures. Therefore I use Hodgdon for pressures on their powders since I use IMR 4350 and 4064 with fantastic results. The 4064 is probably one of the most universal powders for all of my rifles. If you have difficulty finding load data on the 4064 just use the 4895 data. I have discovered that they are almost identical. I use the 4350 for my Weatherby 340 mag and Ruger 375, it has significantly better performance for the 250+ gr bullets.
Check out these reloading sites, you won't be disappointed and you will answer many of your questions concerning powders and performance.
Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
Anyone worked much with RL16 in the 308 ?
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
There are many new powders and chambers that can make most things possible, But at what cost.
Time and time again I see where someone wants to push there favorite cartridge faster and faster.
This all comes with a price and is not free. there are some easy ways to gain velocity without increasing pressure. Then there is the increasing of the pressure to gain velocity.
There is no magic formula for increasing velocity in a standard cartridge. Pressure = velocity and efficiency can improve velocity but only so much. barrel length also has a bearing on how much velocity can be achieved at the same pressure.
Having worked on many rifles that were over pressured, the effects are easy to spot and very costly for the slight increase in velocity. (Nothing is free). at One time I had the velocity bug for 1000 yard matches and paid dearly for it in damaged equipment and components. I finally saw the error of my ways and stopped tearing everything up.
Knowing how to increase velocity without more pressure is valuable but it requires a commitment that Many are not willing to make, Because adding powder does it instantly and is easy.
We are talking about the 308 on this post and it is a good example to discuss. First, target a pressure. 62,000 Psi is SAMMI max. Many things determine why SAMMI sets this pressure and recommends that you don't exceed it. Of coarse you can, but at what cost. Next, Target a velocity for what you need within the pressure limits by trying different powder burn rates for the barrel length you have. If this is practiced, you will get great accuracy and life of your equipment and components.
If you want/desire more that this will get you, then you have to make some decisions. The easiest
way is to AI it. This will add case capacity and efficiency without increasing pressure and changing the action. Adding a little free bore will also increase the velocity and hold the pressure to the SAMMI limits. If you still want more, then it is time to change to a bigger cartridge like a 300 WM.
The 308 Is a very good cartridge in it's original form and at or below it's design pressure, so don't expect more of it than it was designed for or the problems will only increase as the pressure does. My match rifle has over 23,000 rounds through it and with iron sites will still shoot 1/2 MOA.
Just My Opinion and recommendation.
J E CUSTOM
Time and time again I see where someone wants to push there favorite cartridge faster and faster.
This all comes with a price and is not free. there are some easy ways to gain velocity without increasing pressure. Then there is the increasing of the pressure to gain velocity.
There is no magic formula for increasing velocity in a standard cartridge. Pressure = velocity and efficiency can improve velocity but only so much. barrel length also has a bearing on how much velocity can be achieved at the same pressure.
Having worked on many rifles that were over pressured, the effects are easy to spot and very costly for the slight increase in velocity. (Nothing is free). at One time I had the velocity bug for 1000 yard matches and paid dearly for it in damaged equipment and components. I finally saw the error of my ways and stopped tearing everything up.
Knowing how to increase velocity without more pressure is valuable but it requires a commitment that Many are not willing to make, Because adding powder does it instantly and is easy.
We are talking about the 308 on this post and it is a good example to discuss. First, target a pressure. 62,000 Psi is SAMMI max. Many things determine why SAMMI sets this pressure and recommends that you don't exceed it. Of coarse you can, but at what cost. Next, Target a velocity for what you need within the pressure limits by trying different powder burn rates for the barrel length you have. If this is practiced, you will get great accuracy and life of your equipment and components.
If you want/desire more that this will get you, then you have to make some decisions. The easiest
way is to AI it. This will add case capacity and efficiency without increasing pressure and changing the action. Adding a little free bore will also increase the velocity and hold the pressure to the SAMMI limits. If you still want more, then it is time to change to a bigger cartridge like a 300 WM.
The 308 Is a very good cartridge in it's original form and at or below it's design pressure, so don't expect more of it than it was designed for or the problems will only increase as the pressure does. My match rifle has over 23,000 rounds through it and with iron sites will still shoot 1/2 MOA.
Just My Opinion and recommendation.
J E CUSTOM
Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
J E, your advice is sound
Everyone has their preferences of what is important on this subject.
Mine are:
1. Accuracy first, so I will not give that up to get an additional 100fps
2. Consistency, I want a powder that is temp. stable as possible and also the least shot to shot variance.
3. When hunting, a bullet that is effective when it hits the animal.
4. Velocity, I want the best velocity I can get while achieving all the above.
Some times you can have your cake and eat it. I have heard good things about RL16 for a 308 and for 6.5CM, should be esp. good for that round with 140 gr bullets and less.
Time will permit me to find out this summer with 175-178 gr. bullets in my 308.
Everyone has their preferences of what is important on this subject.
Mine are:
1. Accuracy first, so I will not give that up to get an additional 100fps
2. Consistency, I want a powder that is temp. stable as possible and also the least shot to shot variance.
3. When hunting, a bullet that is effective when it hits the animal.
4. Velocity, I want the best velocity I can get while achieving all the above.
Some times you can have your cake and eat it. I have heard good things about RL16 for a 308 and for 6.5CM, should be esp. good for that round with 140 gr bullets and less.
Time will permit me to find out this summer with 175-178 gr. bullets in my 308.
23k is a seriously serious amount of bang. I probably havnt got that many rounds out of my last half dozen barrels combined. 300wby, 6.5x284x2, 6mm Remington, 7rum, and a 300 win. I
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
All it takes is taking care of the barrel by keeping it clean, keeping the pressure down to reasonable pressures, keeping the velocities below 3,000 ft/sec and allowing the barrel to cool as much as possible. Most military rifles are loaded below 3,000 ft/sec and use ball powder for longevity.
Most of the barrels you listed exceed these in one way or the other.
The 308 Is one of the cartridges that will give many years of service under these conditions.
J E CUSTOM
348 fan
Well-Known Member
Well said J E C
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
In these times of social distancing and quarantine, We don't have a lot to do, so in my mind it is good to rehash some of the old post to get the newer membership involved. I have seen post that were new in 2004 (When I joined this site) that have surfaced in the last year, and they still had lots of good information.For some on the older guys, (Like Me) it is good to bring up the past and remember how things have improved In the last 50 Years.
J E CUSTOM
Michael Eichele
Well-Known Member
I've hit over 2900'sec with the 168 and RL17 in a 26" barrel. I get ridiculous speeds with the 200 grain hybrid and N550 and better yet H4350. I can top 2700'sec in my 27" lilja three groove FTR rig. Accurately too. H4350 seems to run cooler.
