280ai vs 7mm rem mag?
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MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
The age-old question, that is almost as old as both cartridges themselves...
Both are exceptional cartridges, but the 7mmRM has more oomph behind it, for sure. To closer bridge the gap, I would look into the .280 Sherman. It's basically a .280 AI, that's been improved even more. It's based off the .270 Win/.280 Rem case, but the shoulder is moved even farther forward than the .280 AI, to get even more powder in there. The .280 Sherman is ****-near a 7mmRM, but uses a standard '06 bolt face action.
For more info on the cartridge's performance, give Rich Sherman a PM. His username on here is "elkaholic". He's the designer and proprietor of the Sherman cartridges.
Both are exceptional cartridges, but the 7mmRM has more oomph behind it, for sure. To closer bridge the gap, I would look into the .280 Sherman. It's basically a .280 AI, that's been improved even more. It's based off the .270 Win/.280 Rem case, but the shoulder is moved even farther forward than the .280 AI, to get even more powder in there. The .280 Sherman is ****-near a 7mmRM, but uses a standard '06 bolt face action.
For more info on the cartridge's performance, give Rich Sherman a PM. His username on here is "elkaholic". He's the designer and proprietor of the Sherman cartridges.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Has less body taper than the A.I. slso
jjmp
Well-Known Member
It would be fine, but it will not match the 7mag because of case volume, look into the Sherman la 270 wildcat it beats the 280 ai ,by a bit , neat idea ,& something to ponder can't hurt , I'm pro 27,28 glad we have choices , good luck!
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Whoops...Forgot about that.Has less body taper than the A.I. slso
johnlittletree
Well-Known Member
Well first Elk are not hard to drop I have used 25-06, 308, 300 Win Mag, 12ga. Slug and 30-06 to drop Elk. Lung shots have never failed me on Elk. The trick with Elk is being patient and being willing to stalk until you get the shot you want. I have no real experience with Moose myself but have seen plenty of them killed. With the Moose every time it was a matter of a rampaging Moose not someone out stalking one on a hunt. That meant close in fast movement and terrible angles in terms of trying to get a good shot. So I will let someone else with actual hunting experience with a Moose answer that. That said they did not go down easy like an Elk.
I do not know if I would go the AI route on a hunting rifle how many rounds do you want to put through it just fire forming brass? In my mind, a hunting rifle should give you a lifetime of accurate use, unlike a competition rig where you expect to regularly wear out barrels.
The 280 is basically a 7mm-06 if that helps you think about the cartridges potential. Conceptually think of the 7mm Rem Mag as a .338 Win Mag necked down to 7mm. Are you getting an idea know what each one brings tot he table in terms bolt face, cartridge length and diameter, powder capacity, overall length etc???? Put another way it would be like comparing the 30-06 to a 300 Win Mag, in this case, make neck them both down and drop a 7mm on top. On Paper it looks like a huge difference but on game, it is not much difference at all. Obviously, the case with the most powder is going to spit the bullet out at higher velocity which makes for a flatter trajectory.
You have to know how far away you plan to shoot. You need to pick a bullet that will both expand and hold together at the speed it will be going when it hits the animal. This is going to be a big deal between these two. Personally, I do not like to shoot at game more than 600m away if I can help it. You might feel confident taking a 800m shot my brother in law might take a 900m shot. Ideally, you would want to use a bullet that matches the cartridge and the range you intend to hunt.
Are you a recoil sensitive shooter? I am 6 foot 1 and look like I played football for the NFL! I can put 60 Magnum rounds down range from a bench and not even have a bruise. If that is not you though less recoil makes it far easier to take precision shots. Dreading the recoil never helps anyone shoot straight!
When I am hunting Elk I am horse back some guys like quads. If I had to walk the entire time I would want to have a fairly light rifle. My 280 is just that. It is 1.25 at the receiver for maybe 2-3 inches then it tapers down to .630 at the muzzle. If I had to walk all day up and down steep terrain that is what I want with me. The stock is a fairly light Richards Microfit in Tiger Maple. All of my magnums have much heavier barrels and the stock's tend to be beefier and my optics are beefier. Just depends on if you have a beast of burden carrying your dead weight or if you are carrying it!
Last but not least what stage of life are you in? Are you still new to magnums and like all things faster and heavier or are you old enough to be past that stage? If you want a magnum get a magnum so you have no regrets! If you do not need a magnum and do not want to put up with the quirks of a magnum get the 280!
Either way do what is going to make you happiest with your purchase because either will work just fine. Never over think your purchases unless you are on a tight budget and have to look far down the road. Too many people let other people talk them into buying something they do not need or want and they regret it later!
Oh and if you do intend to hunt in Africa any rifle you take has to be able to shoot ammunition that has the correct headstamp on the brass. You also need to be able to purchase factory ammo in that country. Something like a 280AI would not be doable in some countries at all. It is harder to bring ammo with you traveling than it is to bring your rifle. So well established SAE and MEtric cartridges are fine but Wildcats normaly a no-no each country is different!
I do not know if I would go the AI route on a hunting rifle how many rounds do you want to put through it just fire forming brass? In my mind, a hunting rifle should give you a lifetime of accurate use, unlike a competition rig where you expect to regularly wear out barrels.
The 280 is basically a 7mm-06 if that helps you think about the cartridges potential. Conceptually think of the 7mm Rem Mag as a .338 Win Mag necked down to 7mm. Are you getting an idea know what each one brings tot he table in terms bolt face, cartridge length and diameter, powder capacity, overall length etc???? Put another way it would be like comparing the 30-06 to a 300 Win Mag, in this case, make neck them both down and drop a 7mm on top. On Paper it looks like a huge difference but on game, it is not much difference at all. Obviously, the case with the most powder is going to spit the bullet out at higher velocity which makes for a flatter trajectory.
You have to know how far away you plan to shoot. You need to pick a bullet that will both expand and hold together at the speed it will be going when it hits the animal. This is going to be a big deal between these two. Personally, I do not like to shoot at game more than 600m away if I can help it. You might feel confident taking a 800m shot my brother in law might take a 900m shot. Ideally, you would want to use a bullet that matches the cartridge and the range you intend to hunt.
Are you a recoil sensitive shooter? I am 6 foot 1 and look like I played football for the NFL! I can put 60 Magnum rounds down range from a bench and not even have a bruise. If that is not you though less recoil makes it far easier to take precision shots. Dreading the recoil never helps anyone shoot straight!
When I am hunting Elk I am horse back some guys like quads. If I had to walk the entire time I would want to have a fairly light rifle. My 280 is just that. It is 1.25 at the receiver for maybe 2-3 inches then it tapers down to .630 at the muzzle. If I had to walk all day up and down steep terrain that is what I want with me. The stock is a fairly light Richards Microfit in Tiger Maple. All of my magnums have much heavier barrels and the stock's tend to be beefier and my optics are beefier. Just depends on if you have a beast of burden carrying your dead weight or if you are carrying it!
Last but not least what stage of life are you in? Are you still new to magnums and like all things faster and heavier or are you old enough to be past that stage? If you want a magnum get a magnum so you have no regrets! If you do not need a magnum and do not want to put up with the quirks of a magnum get the 280!
Either way do what is going to make you happiest with your purchase because either will work just fine. Never over think your purchases unless you are on a tight budget and have to look far down the road. Too many people let other people talk them into buying something they do not need or want and they regret it later!
Oh and if you do intend to hunt in Africa any rifle you take has to be able to shoot ammunition that has the correct headstamp on the brass. You also need to be able to purchase factory ammo in that country. Something like a 280AI would not be doable in some countries at all. It is harder to bring ammo with you traveling than it is to bring your rifle. So well established SAE and MEtric cartridges are fine but Wildcats normaly a no-no each country is different!
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
For the last couple years, Nosler has been making .280 AI brass, that does not need special prepping or fire-forming in the typical sense of all other AI and wildcat cartridges, thanks to Nosler and SAAMI getting the .280 AI standardized as a SAAMI spec cartridge due mostly in-part to it's popularity.
Personally, I love the .280 AI, and load and fire-form for 3 different Ackleys. But hopefully someday I will add a .280 Sherman and .300 Sherman to the collection.
jimbires
Well-Known Member
these two are just about twins . the question should be , do you want a belted case , or a non belted case . here is a little quickload info . both are with a 26" bbl , both are using 160gr accubond bullets .
280 AI , is rated to 65000 psi , water capacity 74.0 gr , when I set up a powder chart 65.5 gr of RL26 gave the highest velocity of all powders , 3187 FPS
7 rem mag , is rated to 61000 psi , water capacity 82.0 gr , when I set up the powder chart 69.6 gr of RL 26 gave the highest velocity of all powders , 3205 FPS
280 AI , is rated to 65000 psi , water capacity 74.0 gr , when I set up a powder chart 65.5 gr of RL26 gave the highest velocity of all powders , 3187 FPS
7 rem mag , is rated to 61000 psi , water capacity 82.0 gr , when I set up the powder chart 69.6 gr of RL 26 gave the highest velocity of all powders , 3205 FPS
Canhunter35
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Since you're rebarrelling a 270 just go with the 280. It'll kill a moose or elk just fine. It's a great all around cartridge. If it was a dedicated moose or elk rifle then maybe go bigger with a 30-06
lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
A little real world experience in velocities between the two. I own both, and love both. Both have 26" barrels.
These are my hunting loads:
.280AI 1:9": 175 Berger Elite Hunter @ 2975fps over RL23. Hot load, right at the top end just before pressure. I also have a light load in a 160 TMK over H1000 @ 2900 for recreational shooting and varmint hunting.
7RM 1:8.5": 180 Hybrid @ 3080fps over RL26. This is a newer load, as my old load was a measly 2996fps over H1000. But ridiculously accurate. I took a bull elk @ 662 yards with the slow load last year. I could just have easily used my .280AI, but it was my goal to use the 7RM to take my bull. My late father-in-law asked me to rebuild it and kill an elk with it. We hunted together for 25 years, and he never took an elk with it. My 14 year old daughter was actually the first one ever to kill an elk with it the fall before.
I have loaded for 10-12 different 7RM. From 160s to 183s. All between 2950 to 3150+. The most recent one (still in development) is pushing the 175 Berger Elite Hunter @ 3070 over H1000 with no signs of pressure at all, and into the low .2s. H1000 is just super accurate, clean burning, and temp stable. Hard to beat in a hunting rifle.
I have loaded for 3 other .280AIs. From 140s to 180s. None were even CLOSE to the QL prediction as stated above with 26" barrels. 160s generally get mid 2900-3000s when run fairly hot but still safely. But I have never tried RL26 in any of them. RL23 is what seems to work best in the rifles I have loaded for. Even H1000 works amazingly. Albeit at slower speeds. But accuracy and stability are second to none. Which is still plenty to kill elk a long ways out.
To me, it is a no-brainer. If you have a standard face LA already, do the .280AI. Build it a bit lighter, and shoot some elk and moose with it. You will really only lose about 150-200 yards if you maintain a limit of 1800fps or 1500ft/lbs on target as your personal criteria. But that would still be 850ish for the .280AI vs. 1000ish for the 7RM.
These are my hunting loads:
.280AI 1:9": 175 Berger Elite Hunter @ 2975fps over RL23. Hot load, right at the top end just before pressure. I also have a light load in a 160 TMK over H1000 @ 2900 for recreational shooting and varmint hunting.
7RM 1:8.5": 180 Hybrid @ 3080fps over RL26. This is a newer load, as my old load was a measly 2996fps over H1000. But ridiculously accurate. I took a bull elk @ 662 yards with the slow load last year. I could just have easily used my .280AI, but it was my goal to use the 7RM to take my bull. My late father-in-law asked me to rebuild it and kill an elk with it. We hunted together for 25 years, and he never took an elk with it. My 14 year old daughter was actually the first one ever to kill an elk with it the fall before.
I have loaded for 10-12 different 7RM. From 160s to 183s. All between 2950 to 3150+. The most recent one (still in development) is pushing the 175 Berger Elite Hunter @ 3070 over H1000 with no signs of pressure at all, and into the low .2s. H1000 is just super accurate, clean burning, and temp stable. Hard to beat in a hunting rifle.
I have loaded for 3 other .280AIs. From 140s to 180s. None were even CLOSE to the QL prediction as stated above with 26" barrels. 160s generally get mid 2900-3000s when run fairly hot but still safely. But I have never tried RL26 in any of them. RL23 is what seems to work best in the rifles I have loaded for. Even H1000 works amazingly. Albeit at slower speeds. But accuracy and stability are second to none. Which is still plenty to kill elk a long ways out.
To me, it is a no-brainer. If you have a standard face LA already, do the .280AI. Build it a bit lighter, and shoot some elk and moose with it. You will really only lose about 150-200 yards if you maintain a limit of 1800fps or 1500ft/lbs on target as your personal criteria. But that would still be 850ish for the .280AI vs. 1000ish for the 7RM.
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Ok spill all the information I need on the 7mm Sherman. Dies were to get reamer or were to get a barrel? This will be built off of my Ruger M77 markii that is currently a 270. It will be shot surpressed so that's a factor to add in too.
Canhunter35
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gohring3006
Well-Known Member
I would keep the cartridge within reasonable bullet weights. In other words, 280AI and 162-168 grain bullets. If you plan on something heavier, then the 7 mag.
A 280 AI with a fast 162 ELD is about perfect. A 7mag would probably shove a 180 as fast as the 280Ai shoves a 162.
A 280 AI with a fast 162 ELD is about perfect. A 7mag would probably shove a 180 as fast as the 280Ai shoves a 162.
