.280 or 6.5x284 for elk

[dogz]

That'll be a hoot! Love Wyo, Love elk hunting

I always run my loads over the clock on several days. From time to time one can get some wonky readings and this helps sort that out. Just a thought

 

[oldpilot]

I think there is an upper accuracy node in that 280 could get to. If you stick with a 150 class bullet, you could get more powder fill in there.
The H4831 or in "short cut" form would work fairly well. H4350 is slower burning hence you could get a bit more speed.
I'd run .2 gr. Increments from a known powder and weight from your current load and shoot some ladder tests over a chrony. Go all the way until you see pressure signs and call it "max".
Then look for your velocity flats.
From there, if you havent done so, some seating depth tests in a flat area and see if they move group sizes better.
I think you left something on the table at your current velocity.
RE23 or 26 will usually outperform Hodgdon on velo, but if you can't find it, keep working the Hodgdon and maybe a primer test.... my '06 with Varget is running 2800 and you're way off that mark.
Best of luck on your hunt!

I am confused, you are saying 4350, IMR or H (same burn rates) is slower burning than IMR 4831or H4831???? I respectfully disagree.

 

[Starlite]

I am confused, you are saying 4350, IMR or H (same burn rates) is slower burning than IMR 4831or H4831???? I respectfully disagree.

Yeah I agree. Both 4831&4831SC are slower burning the Both IMR/H4350. Well at least in all 6 of my load data manuals. I just happen to have the Berger one here at the bed side (for some light bedtime reading). The latter is 111/112 and 4831/sc is 123 (slower).

 

[Starlite]

OP,
not sure if you have the mag length to get to a longer COAL (Not what the manuals states) where there is another sweet spot; still off the lands (Jump) and not in the lands (jam). if you can safely lengthen the COAL you'll likely be able to get more powder into your brass. Again if your not in a jam situation you'll be happily surprised how much more powder you can attain without increasing pressure to a dangerous level Or having a compressed load. You just have to be able to measure that Maximum COAL accurately (for that given projectile) In that particular rifle. Anyhow, I'm rambling and deviating from your original post. Just was reading what others have stated WRT increasing velocity (myself included I guess) so thought I'd mention this. I'm sure there are lots of posts and threads on how to do that. Assuming you don't know this. My apologies if you do and have.
further side note; I find that newer made rifles and adapting to the newer longer projectiles (Better BCs) with the ever popular LRS/LRH. Sako S20 for example.
sorry. Done babbling.

 

[David Green]

I echo others, my Rem 700 280 gets 160gr Partitions up to 2850 fps muzzle velocity chrographed. Agree with Rick R. - some time ago I worked up loads for an elk hunt in the 280 and a 300 Win mag, ended taking the 280 because it was lighter and more weather resistant despite the down range energy difference. Good luck on the hunt and enjoy the preparation.

 

[nicholasjohn]

Hit a buzzard at 200 kts one day, compressor stall really bad smell, they cleaned the engine, ran good no damage...3 weeks later, hit another buzzard, at 12M feet, 400 kts engine destroyed, all blades gone. Moral, bear hunting with a switch is ungood...1500 #s of energy defines my range; thus my kills are dead in their tracks. I will admit to nice 6x bull in Montana at 95 yds with a 6mm Rem right in the ear canal to the brain.... with the same rifle and conditions I would do it again!

Twice the impact velocity counts for a lot, and I would expect more damage at the higher speed. I also think that you could probably get more of that buzzard into the intake on a T-38 at twice the speed. That's not a very big opening for a bird the size of a buzzard - it's about the same as threading a 6mm bullet through an elk's ear canal. You're a real needle-threader, aren't you ?

 

[oldpilot]

Twice the impact velocity counts for a lot, and I would expect more damage at the higher speed. I also think that you could probably get more of that buzzard into the intake on a T-38 at twice the speed. That's not a very big opening for a bird the size of a buzzard - it's about the same as threading a 6mm bullet through an elk's ear canal. You're a real needle-threader, aren't you ?

No the birds were F-4Ds, the 38 and F-5swere favorites

 

[nicholasjohn]

No the birds were F-4Ds, the 38 and F-5swere favorites

That's a little bigger hole for swallowing birds. Over the years, I've flown with a ton of military pilots, and darn near everybody I know who ever flew the T-38 said it was his favorite - including an SR-71 pilot. I've never had the pleasure myself. Thanks for your service, Sir.

 

[Hand Skills]

i Just ran my load over chrono on one day. Would it make a big difference? My elk hunt is on a general tag in Wyoming. Really looking forward to it! Still researching and trying to pick an area. Going DIY on public land. Really could use a elk in the freezer.

Ya, that load should be humming! Wouldn't be a bad idea to double check it. The other thing you could do is shoot at 450-500yd and measure how far the bullet drops. If you have a good zero (at 100yd or 150yd or 200yd - doesnt matter, but must be spot on at a known distance), it's possible to calculate an approximate velocity.

I've found imr-4831 to give a little more velocity than the H4831, but I don't know if it's worth sacrificing the temperature stability of Hogdon.

Of your two.choices (6.5x284 vs 280 rem), does one rifle carry better than the other? Do they both hold zero (or shoot to the same point of impact) in hot and cold weather?

 

[HTJ]

My Question for the guru's. My .280 load gives 1846 FPS with 1211 ft lbs at 450 yards. I'm shooting a 160 gr partition at 2635 FPS. My 6.5x284 load gives 2092 FPS with 1360 ft lbs at 450 yards. I'm shooting. 140 gr accubond at 2873 FPS. Since the 6.5x284 has more velocity and energy should I use this for my elk hunt? I know some of you will say I need a larger caliper but this is what I have to work with. Please give me your opinions. Thanks!

Speed does not kill! The heavier 160 AB will out penetrate the 140 AB. 160 much better for elk hunting.

 

[Starlite]

Ya, that load should be humming! Wouldn't be a bad idea to double check it. The other thing you could do is shoot at 450-500yd and measure how far the bullet drops. If you have a good zero (at 100yd or 150yd or 200yd - doesnt matter, but must be spot on at a known distance), it's possible to calculate an approximate velocity.

I've found imr-4831 to give a little more velocity than the H4831, but I don't know if it's worth sacrificing the temperature stability of Hogdon.

Of your two.choices (6.5x284 vs 280 rem), does one rifle carry better than the other? Do they both hold zero (or shoot to the same point of impact) in hot and cold weather?

For me ALL IMR powders performs significantly different with summer vs spring/fall shootings. Vihtavuori powders (N's 160 & 133 most recently), H4350, Staball6.5 and Varget all have significantly less deviation. I here H1000 and retumbo are fairly stable as well?

 

[ducky]

Question for the guru's. My .280 load gives 1846 FPS with 1211 ft lbs at 450 yards. I'm shooting a 160 gr partition at 2635 FPS. My 6.5x284 load gives 2092 FPS with 1360 ft lbs at 450 yards.

First off either rifle will work fine, and I hate energy numbers. I've killed elk with a muzzle loader, and most of what I shot didn't generate 1,200 lbs-ft at the muzzle of energy. I still hammered elk with ease. You need enough to penetrate the vitals and then you'll have a dead elk.

I try to use speed as a good indicator as to the max range of a cartridge for hunting. Most modern bullets work well down to 1,800 fps, so that's kind of where I work and why it doesn't matter what you choose. If you fall below 1,800 fps I find bullets will still kill at lower velocities, but they don't mushroom very well or create as much trauma in most cases. So it'll usually take more rounds on target or more tracking to recover your animal.

I also believe twist rates help with bullet performance. I think the faster you spin a bullet, the better it expands on impact. So when I build a rifle I tend to use as fast of a twist as possible.

Be aware that there is more in a 280. Saami pressures were set soft because of the pumps and autos.

I believe this to be a myth for the pumps, as Remington chambered the very same 760 rifles in .270 Win (1952) six years before they did the .280 (1958). The .270 was never offered in a semi-auto 740 or 742, it wasn't until 1981 the .270 was offered in the 7400 series of semi auto rifles. However, the 740 was chambered in .244/6mm Rem and .308 with a 65K and 62K PSI operating pressures.

Best advice I ever got with my first .280 was from a buddy who had one. He said "Use .270 Win load data in your rifle", I did, and I got very similar performance to the .270 Win. If I still had the .280 Rem, I'd still be using .270 Win load data for the 140-160 grain bullets.

 

[manitou]

H4831sc gets me 3040 fps with 140 gr accubonds.
7828ssc gets my 160 accubonds clocking at 2925 fps.
Both rifles are 26" barrel standard .280s.

 

[Starlite]

Best advice I ever got with my first .280 was from a buddy who had one. He said "Use .270 Win load data in your rifle", I did, and I got very similar performance to the .270 Win. If I still had the .280 Rem, I'd still be using .270 Win load data for the 140-160 grain bullets.
[/QUOTE]

WRT 270 for 280. Good advice but not surprised. Both are 30-06 hybrid and there data's are in most cases very similar. (within.5gr) when loading 140-160gr.