28 Nosler advice needed

[brotherbear67]

Out of curiosity, were you using a chronograph? If so, what kind of velocity did that load give you with the 8133?

Yes, I was using a MagnetoSpeed v3, avg 3025fps ES was 11 and SD was 8-9, don't remember offhand. I had run that load earlier and when running it through my Ballistic AE app on my phone it was pretty spot on out to 850 and 1000.

 

[jtmpilot]

Yes, I was using a MagnetoSpeed v3, avg 3025fps ES was 11 and SD was 8-9, don't remember offhand. I had run that load earlier and when running it through my Ballistic AE app on my phone it was pretty spot on out to 850 and 1000.

Great information, I'm gonna do a ladder test using the 195 and 8133 next time out to the range. I have been using RL 33 but am looking for something more temp stable. I will back off of your 78.7 grains and work up. Did you find this to be a max load in your rifle, or just the charge with the best accuracy? My rifle is throated long for the 195's so I am usually able to use a good bit more powder than a SAAMI spec rifle before getting pressure signs...

 

[brotherbear67]

Great information, I'm gonna do a ladder test using the 195 and 8133 next time out to the range. I have been using RL 33 but am looking for something more temp stable. I will back off of your 78.7 grains and work up. Did you find this to be a max load in your rifle, or just the charge with the best accuracy? My rifle is throated long for the 195's so I am usually able to use a good bit more powder than a SAAMI spec rifle before getting pressure signs...

If I remember correctly, I shot a ladder at 250 yds from 76-82 in 1/2 gr increments. Started to see hard ejector marks and sticky bolt lift at 81gr. My node appeared to be 78-79.5. Loaded some at 78.8 as it was right in middle and played with seating depth and 0.030-0.025 was the best that I've found. Ive tried 0.010 off thru 0.065 off for depths. I settled on 78.7 gr and 0.025 off and am getting 1/2 moa results. I have played with fed 215, and fed 215m primers as well. Actually had a bit tighter groups with 215 match primers but got into some bad primers so switched to wlrm. I'm 3.725 to lands, bullets are seated 3.700. Good luck and happy shooting.

 

[esshup]

jtmpilot, how temp unstable is RL-33? What were you seeing fps/temp wise?

 

[jtmpilot]

jtmpilot, how temp unstable is RL-33? What were you seeing fps/temp wise?

Unfortunately I don't have any rock solid numbers for you as far as specific velocities at specific temps. I shoot mostly in Florida and I can tell you that my velocities and corresponding pressure signs would definitely spike with heat. For example, according to my Lab Radar unit my loads would stay consistently between 3120 and 3150 if I kept my loads in the shade. As soon I left them out in the sun once or twice I had a few shots spike up just over 3200 FPS....I also noticed much bigger standard deviations and extreme spreads if I left them exposed to the hot sunshine for any length of time. Obviously these loads were max loads when kept cool and too hot when they became warm, so I have since backed off and keep the velocities in the 3050 fps range when cool to give myself a safety margin to account for heating. I don't really have specific enough numbers to assign any kind of temp sensitivity factor to RL33...I just know it is more sensitive than most powders I use.

 

[jtmpilot]

jtmpilot, how temp unstable is RL-33? What were you seeing fps/temp wise?

Unfortunately I don't have any rock solid numbers for you as far as specific velocities at specific temps. I shoot mostly in Florida and I can tell you that my velocities and corresponding pressure signs would definitely spike with heat. For example, according to my Lab Radar unit my loads would stay consistently between 3120 and 3150 if I kept my loads in the shade. As soon I left them out in the sun once or twice I had a few shots spike up just over 3200 FPS....I also noticed much bigger standard deviations and extreme spreads if I left them exposed to the hot sunshine for any length of time. Obviously these loads were max loads when kept cool and too hot when they became warm, so I have since backed off and keep the velocities in the 3050 fps range when cool to give myself a safety margin to account for heating. I don't really have specific enough numbers to assign any kind of temp sensitivity factor to RL33...I just know it is more sensitive than most powders I use.

 

[Alaska2006]

I finally got to the range with my 28 Nosler. Tried something new; xx.x gr of RL50 was just a load I dreamed up by doing some QL research and barrel time measures. I loaded 8 rounds just to see how RL50 would perform in the 28 Nosler. Defiance hunter action, 27.25" proof carbon (bull), 4 port beast break, Manners EH-1A.
Berger 195 Elite hunter, CCI 250 mag, Nosler Brass (third firing) .I'm at 5,500' elev. and shooting in temps at 70.5-72.0 this morning.
Hard to believe but according to the lab radar these ran out at average MV of 3,164 with an amazing ES of 6 and SD of 2.9.
QL claims this is on the upper end of the load but I had zero pressure signs, no ejector marks; maybe a slight tarnish on a couple case heads (these may have been from a previous firing) As for group; well I wasn't really shooting for groups but the load performed well at <.5 but this was only at 100 yards. I'm going to try and get out again over the long weekend and test a few more RL50 rounds I have 20 rounds loaded 4 each in .3 gr increments up to what I shot today. I have no desire to run this bullet that fast (3,164 MV) so I have down loaded in .3 gr.

 

[jtmpilot]

I finally got to the range with my 28 Nosler. Tried something new; xx.x gr of RL50 was just a load I dreamed up by doing some QL research and barrel time measures. I loaded 8 rounds just to see how RL50 would perform in the 28 Nosler. Defiance hunter action, 27.25" proof carbon (bull), 4 port beast break, Manners EH-1A.
Berger 195 Elite hunter, CCI 250 mag, Nosler Brass (third firing) .I'm at 5,500' elev. and shooting in temps at 70.5-72.0 this morning.
Hard to believe but according to the lab radar these ran out at average MV of 3,164 with an amazing ES of 6 and SD of 2.9.
QL claims this is on the upper end of the load but I had zero pressure signs, no ejector marks; maybe a slight tarnish on a couple case heads (these may have been from a previous firing) As for group; well I wasn't really shooting for groups but the load performed well at <.5 but this was only at 100 yards. I'm going to try and get out again over the long weekend and test a few more RL50 rounds I have 20 rounds loaded 4 each in .3 gr increments up to what I shot today. I have no desire to run this bullet that fast (3,164 MV) so I have down loaded in .3 gr.

That is very interesting. I haven't heard any other guys running that powder in the 28 Nosler. If your powder charge ladder test works well I may have to give it a try! My setup is similar to yours with the exception of barrel length. Mine is only 26 inches. I will look forward to your results

 

[esshup]

That is very interesting. I haven't heard any other guys running that powder in the 28 Nosler. If your powder charge ladder test works well I may have to give it a try! My setup is similar to yours with the exception of barrel length. Mine is only 26 inches. I will look forward to your results

When I asked my gunsmith about that he said to watch it because of the large kernel size causes bridging easily. So, watch to make sure that all the powder makes it into the case and none hangs up in the funnel to be dropped in the next empty case.

 

[Alaska2006]

That is very interesting. I haven't heard any other guys running that powder in the 28 Nosler. If your powder charge ladder test works well I may have to give it a try! My setup is similar to yours with the exception of barrel length. Mine is only 26 inches. I will look forward to your results

I tried the RL 50 because finding RL33 in my area is like finding Ptarmigan teeth or 28 Nosler brass. Figured what the heck for the cost of a pound of powder I may be able to find something workable. started playing with my QL program and Barrel timing to end up with my test load. As of today the backed down load of 87.3 seemed to deliver good result in terms of MV and group but no even close to the original load in terms of ES and SD. The backed down load of 87.3 is running at 3,056 average MV at 5,500' elevation and 77.5 degrees temp today. This is about 100 fps slower than original load but ES was 17 with SD of 10.2 (still pretty dang good) grouped slightly better at 100 yards than original but not enough to really tell if there was and improvement or just slightly better trigger/operator control. My lighter loads did not produce favorable groups so I'll focus efforts on seating depth and work within the 87.3 and original load perimeters. My desire is to get a consistent load 3,000 - 3,050 < .5" at 100 yrd and some powder charge allowable variance without effecting group

 

[Alaska2006]

Some load data from today at the range. Keep in mind this is load data developed for my rifle specifically and may not produce the same results in other rifles. As always use extreme caution when hand loading any firearm.
I loaded 6 various loads all using RL50, All using CCI250 Mag primers, All using Nosler brass (4th firing, full length sized) All using Berger 195 Elite Hunter. All using COAL for my rifle 3.731" All using Base to Ogive for my rifle 2.984", All were seated for .026" jump to lands. All were fire at a temp range from 53 - 61 degrees between 7:40am - 9:20am, All were fire at 5,487' above sea level (Northern NV.) All were 4 shot groups at 100 yrs. All ES/SD & MV were validated with LabRadar

86.7 gr ES 48 SD 26.2 AV. MV 3,107 GROUP (.928-.284)= .644 Cold bore
87.0 gr ES 51 SD 22.5 AV. MV 3,102 GROUP (.416-.284)= .132 One very ragged hole!
87.3 gr ES 26 SD 12.5 AV. MV 3,139 GROUP (.534- .284)= .248
87.7 gr ES 23 SD 11.9 AV. MV 3,145 GROUP ( .708- .284) = .424
88.0 gr ES 13 SD 5.3 AV. MV 3,150 GROUP ( .598- .284) = .314
88.3 gr ES 36 SD 15.3 AV. MV 3,181 GROUP (1.227- .284) = .943

Started seeing slight pressure signs 87.7 gr minor tarnishing of case head and slight indication of ejector marks; no stiff bolt.

88.0 gr same leading indicators of pressure as above load except ejector mark is more prominent

88.3 prominent ejector marks, tarnish case head face and slightly stiff bolt lift.

I should note if you are using QL their data shows a strong 100 - 120 FPS at muzzle slower than my actual fired rounds. I do not know how to true\tune QL with actuals produced in the field.

Load mentioned in original post was 88.1 gr AV MV 3,164 (8 rounds) GROUP ( .717- .284)= .443 all other spec were the same as listed

PS All charges were double weighed and all rounds were trued using Hornady concentric tool to within .0015" run out.
More to come as I play with seating depth and time allows. HAPPY SHOOTING.

 

[jasonco]

Alaska2006, how are you cases holding up, how many firings are you at and are you using 28 or 26 Nosler brass?

I have 3, 25 round sets of 2x-3x fired, 26 Nosler in my test rotation, with a 28 Nosler set of 1x fire. All primer pockets a nice and tight and have yet to trim the 26 Nosler cases.

 

[Alaska2006]

Alaska2006, how are you cases holding up, how many firings are you at and are you using 28 or 26 Nosler brass?

I have 3, 25 round sets of 2x-3x fired, 26 Nosler in my test rotation, with a 28 Nosler set of 1x fire. All primer pockets a nice and tight and have yet to trim the 26 Nosler cases.

Holding up okay. these last rounds were 4th firing and first full length sizing. I did notice two of the 23 test cases had slightly loose primer pockets on the 4th load but I have not yet not any to prime pockets. I only have (had) 25 cases used one to build my COAL/BTO gauge and one for unprimed dumbie round. I build dumbie rounds in case my written data gets lost.
With that said I don't think I will get more than the 5th load before I start culling brass for loose primer pockets.
This is a new rifle I just finished the build on early this spring and haven't played with it much. It has a Proof carbon (my first Proof) and I really like it. I shot 23 rounds during break in; shoot 1 and clean (x3) shoot 3 and clean (x3) and the patches were coming out super clean (other than some carbon) zero copper or iron flakes, chips or slivers after about 8-10 rounds. I loaded 23 all the same fairly light loads of RL33 (because every read was RL33 is the ticket) for break in and they grouped very well for a barrel break in (about 1" @100 yrd 23 rounds) After break in I stayed with RL33 for a few test loads but I felt the powder was very dirty. One post on there recommended I increase pressure because they noticed RL33 to have a better burn at higher pressures. That is what but me on the hunt for something other than RL33, that and the fact its difficult to get in my area. RL50 seemed like no one had tried it from all I read and doing some research it appeared to be a potential option for RL33. So far it seems to shoot, has a lower burn rate and explosion temp than RL33 and seems to run a bit cleaner, at least in my application.
All in this rifle has less than 100 rounds through it and my RL50 testing is early stages.

 

[Alaska2006]

Alaska2006, how are you cases holding up, how many firings are you at and are you using 28 or 26 Nosler brass?

I have 3, 25 round sets of 2x-3x fired, 26 Nosler in my test rotation, with a 28 Nosler set of 1x fire. All primer pockets a nice and tight and have yet to trim the 26 Nosler cases.

Sorry forgot to add, these are 28 Nosler cases. I may have to find some 26 Nosler and build them to 28s because I cannot find 28s anywhere, everything is back order