.270 load near max?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by gonewest, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. gonewest

    gonewest Well-Known Member

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    I have been working up loads for my 2 .270's and right now using a 130 gr. Hornady Interbond and 60 grs of 4831sc with a large rifle cci primer I am getting good groups and no signs of pressure. I'm at max in most of my books. Do you think I should keep going little by little or be happy with what I got. I just got some 130 gr accubonds to try also the 140 accubonds with 57.5 grs of 4831sc with the large rifle cci primer shoot real good. I'm going o try 58 grs next but if no pressure should I keep going? I'm using Sako guns if that helps . Thanks for any input.
     
  2. SQ Stalker

    SQ Stalker Active Member

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    Do you have a chronograph? Knowing the velocity will help judge if you're pushing the envelope. I think ultimately the pressure signs will tell whether you're too hot.

    My 270 loads are above book loads with the amount of powder and fps but I'm able to get 6 loads out of my brass.

    Whether you should keep going is up to you, the game your hunting, range, sanity, etc.

    Also leave some room in case you find yourself shooting it hot temps after load development.
     
  3. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    IF you choose to proceed, make sure to work up in small incriments. And keep an eye out for any signs of pressure.
    Not all rifles will meet or exceed book max. But I like to see where I stand with every rifle I load for, so I load my rifles up (slowly) to the point I see signs of pressure durring load development, then back off to my most accurate ''hot load'' that I can shoot safely even on a 115 degree day.
    EXAMPLE, I shot 60-thru-64 gr of RL-19 in groups of 5, pushing a 140 Accubond in my 270wsm. I can live with ''semi cratered'' primers, but flat, or pancaked primers make me nervous :D. 64gr gave me a semi stiff bolt, and kinda flat primers. So I stuck with 62gr as my most accurate, and safe all weather load. I hunt the brakes of the Snake River in Hells Canyon in August where temps can exceed 115 degrees. But I also hunt the Blue Mountains , and the Eagle Caps in late Nov. where -5 to-20 can occur. RL-19 seems to be kinda temp sensitive, so while 64gr may work fine in Nov, I might blow myself up in Aug.

    All in all its a personal choice. No one should tell you to load above max, especially if your happy with what youve got.
    I have a bit different personality, and will always wonder if I can accurately, and safely push them harder. So that is why I load the way I do. I like to see what I can get out of a rifle, and exactly where I stand when choosing my final load.
     
  4. gonewest

    gonewest Well-Known Member

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    I plan on shooting thru a corno next month. I think I am going to let the temp cool of a bit. It was hot lst time I shot and the barrels were scallding hot after 3 shots.
     
  5. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    gonewest,

    Velocity will tell you where your pressure is. As far as cratered and flat primers go they are some of the poorest indicators of pressure. Each rifle is unique in these two features.

    It takes so much pressure to achieve so much velocity.

    Follow Winmag's cautions and watch the velocity. I'd stop at the first of two points.

    1. Extraction becomes a problem or
    2. 3200 FPS is reached.
    The reason for the second limiting point is that the is no reason for a 270 Win to shoot faster than that. It makes the WSM feel bad.:D
     
  6. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Why Roy, are you feeling well? I belive thats the most conservitave info Ive ever hered you give conserning loading for the great 270......(one of my favorite calibers too, by the way)
    Arent you the same guy who was using a drop tube and a jack hammer to cram enough powder into the 270 case to push your wildcat IWK's at light speed?

    Oh ya its you. Just read the smart a$$ comment concerning the 270wsm...... Nevermind:D
     
  7. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Yea, I'm getting old!!!:rolleyes:
     
  8. OKIE2

    OKIE2 Well-Known Member

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    It takes so much pressure to achieve so much velocity.

    this is not true look at some of your powders and you can find powders that produce more fps with less presure than some others do.
     
  9. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Well, sorta kinda.

    It's the area under the pressure curve that creates the velocity.

    Whatcha want is a pressure curve that approaches being square (ain't gonna happen).

    For any given powder the peak pressure will increase as velocity is increased, up to a point.

    It is correct that the desire is to use the powder with the lowest pressure for the velocity desired. Then hope it shoots well.
     
  10. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    True, however powders that are comercially available to handloaders that will give velocities near 3200 fps in a 270 win with 140gr+ size bullets are few and far between, Not to mention on the very edge of the limmit where pressures are concerned even getting to that point in that case. Even cramming enough powder in to achieve that velocity with a 140gr+ size bullet becomes ''tricky''.
    The only powder I know of that may reach that velocity with 140gr + size bullets in the 270 win case with less pressure would be Hornady Superformance. And its not available to handloaders. So even thats a guess.
    Roy knows the 270 well. He's known for pushing one to its limmits.
    Is there some powder combination you know of that will reach the stated velocity with less pressure? Id sure like to know if there is. I may start using it. Im not being a smart a$$, Im just curious cause I dont know of anny.
     
  11. OKIE2

    OKIE2 Well-Known Member

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    hogdon don't even show a 130 grain at 3200 fps
     
  12. 3006savage

    3006savage Well-Known Member

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    Gonewest I would try the 150 grain Interbond instead of the 130. It has a .525 BC compared to .46 for the 130 grain Interbond. It will have adaquate impact velocity and energy to around 500 to 600 yards depending on altitude.

    The 150 will be travelling just as fast as the 130 downrange so impact velocity is a nonissue and it will carry energy much better down range when you may need it.

    PS: Alliant shows its RL17 load with a 150 grain Speer BTSP clocking 2925 FPS. Max charge with that bullet was 51.5 grains. This is over 125 FPS faster than the other alliant powders shown.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  13. gonewest

    gonewest Well-Known Member

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    3006 I just got a real steal yesterday on 2 boxes of 100 Hornady Interbonds 130 gr. for 17.95 a box. I wish they had more . I got them at a gun shop local and I don't know if they were on sale or mis marked. I might try them in 150. I wish hey made them in 140's. But can get the Acc. bond 140's and are about the same.
     
  14. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    My panties are in a bit of a bunch @ the moment so here goes....:)

    From the following it should be evident that the pressures to which I load are well below anything that could be considered even border line dangerous.

    Without calibrated pressure measurement, (read...I'm boxing up the RSI lab to go to a new home) the only criteria/indications of excessive pressures available to me that I understand are:


    • Flattened/cratered primer pockets. By cratered I mean primers flowing into the tapered primer pocket entrance filling it and shifting the 'seam' to the outer edge of the bevel.
    • Extraction friction. As indicated by increased pressure needed to raise the bolt handle and/or use palm or other object to remove the spent cartridge. (This is entirely unacceptable in a hunting round. Loading, shooting and loading the next cartridge should be smooth and entirely effortless. To be otherwise in a hunting load leads to several levels of misfortune.)
    After 43 years with the same military surplus 1908 Brazilian Mauser Action, bolt face and firing pin I know what this old girl is telling me.

    My chronographing began in 1968 with an Oehler that used the ink trail screens. It told me the same thing that the current Chrony tells me with with any 130 and 140 class bullet in the 270 Win.

    The original barrel was a Douglas Premium 12 twist. The current barrel is a Lilja #4 contour 10 twist. Chambers in each are unique and have different affects on bullets and powder charges. The Lilja is a 'slower' barrel but the extra 3" (27 compared to 24) seems to make up the difference.

    The below image shows no excessive primer pressure indication, in fact there's less pressure than when I was using IMR 4350 at the same velocities. These cases are on their upteenth loading with no need of FL sizing yet. (I size 1/2 the neck only. More powder capacity). I also use Winchester brass as it has been ( I haven't had to buy any 270 Win cases in decades) tougher and exhibited greater volume than Remington. If I put the Win. case load in a Rem case it is definitely too hot!

    There's another fella here using 7828ssc and getting bodacious velocities out of a winny. I tried his loads and couldn't get there from here.

    [​IMG]

    Here load data from earlier manuals:
    270 Winchester Load Data from Manuals.
    Speer Number 7 - Copyright 1966. My first load manual. ($2.95)
    130 grain Speer - 4831 60gr - 3180 FPS
    4350 56gr - 3164 FPS
    I shot the 60gr 4831 for several years harvesting several deer. I then got the first model Oehler and learned it was making only 2900 FPS MV.

    Hodgon Manual - Copyright 1970 ($3.00)
    130 grain bullet - 4831 60gr - 3213 FPS - 48,500 PSI (Must be CUP?)
    150 grain bullet - 4831 58gr - 3015 FPS - 52,600 PSI
    170 grain bullet - 4831 57gr - 2819 FPS - 51,200 PSI

    Speer Number 9 - Fourth printing April 1978 (Copyright Pages gone from mine)
    This was only 4 years after 4831 became a canister powder in 1973!

    Note how loads became more conservative.

    130 grain bullet - IMR-4350 56gr - 3058 FPS
    IMR-4831 57gr - 3027 FPS
    H-4831 60gr - 3021 FPS (Note the diff between H & IMR)

    By now I knew the rifle pretty well and N205 briefly became available. I started loading it a a starting point increasing charges and chronographing until I reached the usual pressure signs of the previous load. That turned out to be over 3200 fps by at least 50 fps. I toned her back to 3200 (3196 average over many shots). When N205 was no longer on the shelves I switched to IMR-4350 an loaded to the same velocity. In this rifle that was a charge of 58.5 gr, well over maximum listed, and with "livable" pressures. Though FL resizing had to be done every 10 +/- shots as compared to hardly ever with the N205 load.

    Somewhere along the line, not too many years ago I learned that RL-22 was the same as Norma N-205 or MRP. Note that N205, back in the day, exhibited variations in burning rate from lot to lot, the same as Reloader 22 does now. I have been told that while being the same as N205, RL-22 isn't as quality controlled.

    Using the same load development as earlier mentioned, though using non-magnum primers, I stopped again at 3200 FPS MV. Pressures were back to where they were with the old N205 loads. This was the same time that I discovered LRH.com and learned that the Douglas barrel was done in. I switched to a Lilja 10 twist @ 27". It shot as good as the Douglas. When I switched to CCI-200s from 250s group size dropped to the teens.

    Alliant Powder Reloaders' Guide 2002 addition ($2.50)
    .270 Win.
    Speer 130 Spitz 60gr Reloder 22 - 3160 FPS 61500 PSI
    Sierra 140 BT 60gr Reloder 22 - 2930 FPS 58400 PSI
    Nosler 150 Spitz 59.5 Reloder 22 - 2910 FPS 60300 PSI
    Sierra 150 SBT 58.5 Reloder 22 - 3010 FPS 61800 PSI

    Mine just happens to shoot the Nosler and Hornady 140 class bullets at 3200 with 58.5 gr RL-22 depending on the lot and the time of year.

    Thus I'm a a grain and a half less than the listed max.......neener, neener, neener:D

    Here goes, I'm sending it......<Submit Reply> <Click> - Bang Flop:)