264 Win Mag LR bullets

Korhil78

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Jun 22, 2011
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2,704
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New Mexico
I have been using it a lot in a 7mm Sherman MAX with the heaviest bullet I could use which was the 195 Gr Berger. It works very well but it will not be as temp stable as H1000 or Retumbo which would also be great powders for your heavy bullets.

RL26 will give you more velocity over H1000 and maybe even retumbo.
 

Laguna Freak

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435
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South Central Texas, just north of the Wall
I have been using it a lot in a 7mm Sherman MAX with the heaviest bullet I could use which was the 195 Gr Berger. It works very well but it will not be as temp stable as H1000 or Retumbo which would also be great powders for your heavy bullets.

RL26 will give you more velocity over H1000 and maybe even retumbo.

I thought 26 was supposed to be temp stable. No???

Edit: Just read the Alliant site again. I guess consistent controlled response to temperature change isnt the same as temp stable.
 

Laguna Freak

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435
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South Central Texas, just north of the Wall
@ 3050 fps, 80 F, 29.8” Hg I’m getting the following 1:9 twist Sg from JBM:

Sierra TGK 130 = 1.814
Berg CH 135 = 1.549
Berg VLD Hunt 130 = 1.495
Swift Sii 130 = 1.888
Nos AB 130 = 2.029
Nos ABLR 129 = 1.873
Nos ABLR 142 = 1.662


So, either the 8 twist rifling is over-rated as a necessity, its just the latest shooting marketing fad, or JBM Ballistics is off their ballistics rocker. I doubt the latter is the case.

* I used 0.199” as length of plastic tip for all except Berg. That is the nominal length provided by Sierra and is consistent, ~ 0.001 - 0.002 shorter than my measurements of Scirocco and Accubond bullets.
 
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Laguna Freak

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Jan 5, 2015
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435
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South Central Texas, just north of the Wall
I’m stoked! Took delivery of this Super Grade beauty today. Got the trigger adjusted (see pic - pull wt screw backed waayyy out) and was not disappointed in the factory 2 point bedding job.
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MagnumManiac

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Feb 25, 2008
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2,570
Beautiful rifle, congrats.
All of my 264’s love eating RETUMBO...now I know it’s unobtanium there at the moment, but when it becomes available again, get your hands on some because it is THE powder.
I have also used US869, RE33 & H50BMG. All 3 work very well with the 156gr Berger. I have limited data due to only having one box of those bullets to work with.
Currently running 142gr ABLR, and as I said before, I had no trouble with them in a 1:9” Win Mod 70 EW. This was above 4000’, so maybe that was a factor.
Anyway, just try them.

Cheers.
 

Eric Alexander

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Mar 30, 2015
Messages
75
I'm looking at a specific buying opportunity that I deem somewhat rare and it has a 9 twist barrel. As I was researching and getting all of the helpful recommendations here, I found a great disparity between Berger's Litz Twist Rate Calculator and JBM Ballistics Miller/Courtney Sg calculator. In short, the Berger calculator yielded a no go (1.27 Sg) and the JBM yielded a go (1.651 Sg) on the 140 ABLR.

If you are interested, you can click on the link I posted above or go to the Ballistics forum to read the discussion on Bullet Stability from folks a lot smarter than me to get their thoughts on these two respected online calculators. I was a bit surprised and you may be too.

When something does not make sense, or in this case two well-respected sources offer conflicting results, I look deeper.
If you’re on the fence about a nice pre-64 Model 70 with a 1:9 twist (or an older Rem700 w same).. and you are enamored of the 142 ablr.... and you reallywant that combo to work so you feel good about buying it ... you wil be disappointed. I have been there. I have several of them and the 142 is not happy with any of them. The bullet they like is the 130 Nosler AB.
But you want to shoot the 142...sorry.
Please resign yourself to the fact that 1:9 is not the twist for success.
I, too, was enamored of the 142 but, in the end, I finallyhad a barrel maker cut rifle a barrel with the M70 profile and 1:8 twist and now all is well.
As bad as we may want something to work and challenge the existing logic, it generally doesn’t. Lots of us have paid beaucoup tuition for that lesson. In the end, do you want the rifle more than the bullet? I’d go with that fork and honor it with the bullet it is comfortable with. Though the 130 AB doesn’t quite have specs, only in very long range situations would the higher BC of the 142 be of critical importance. Maybe that helps you pull the trigger on your opportunity.
 

Trooper1

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Oct 8, 2020
Messages
35
Location
Redding CA
So, I got the rifle. NIB Model 70 Super Grade .264 WM w/ 26” Winchester magnum profile barrel. It was a smokin’ deal I couldn’t pass. Waiting for it to arrive.

I still haven’t decided which bullet to start with. I’ve got a couple 30’s for larger game so I may start with a lighter bullet ie; 130 gr to establish benchmark performance before trying the heavier and longer bullets. I really appreciate all of the helpful feedback on this thread.

I’m thinking I’ll buy some 7 rem mag cases for it bc the 264’s just seem to cost more for the headstamp.

I’ve got 7+ lbs of RL16 and a bunch of WLRM and WLR primers to see if I can develop a satisfying load.
Congrats on your purchase. It’s a beautiful rifle for a factory gun. I have a 264 in the EW version With the 9 twist. Before I shot it, I took it to the gunsmith and had him re-bed the pillars and action. I’m currently shooting 130 gr factory Nosler AB’s. They are very accurate (maybe I got lucky) without having to work up a load, although just for grins, I am going to try the 121 Hammer Hunters. If my rifle doesn’t like them, I’ll stay with the 130 AB’s.

The difference between the the Berger and JBM calcs is confusing. But aren’t those just estimates by computer and recommendations? Maybe they are correct. But how do they perform in your rifle? What is the elevation where you are hunting? Temperature? All of those things do factor into the calculations, but real field use will give you those answers. If you are set on using 142 ABLRs, buy a box and give them a try. You’ll know for sure how they perform in your rifle. It may or may not like those bullets at all. Mine loves the 130’s.

Personally, I agree with Lance Kenyon as far as distance you plan on shooting game. At my self imposed limit of 500 yards, anything beyond that has too much room for error, resulting in a bad shot, be it environmental conditions or the one pressing the trigger. But that’s just me. I’m certain there are many others here that can make that shot, I just choose not to. And at that distance, I doubt the animal would know the difference between 130 and 142 grains. something to consider. If and when I decide to rebarrel, I’ll go no less than an 8 twist.

I purchased a Super Grade in 338 mag out of the custom shop when they made a special 100 rifle run of the controlled round feed as a fund raiser at the Safari Club Convention years ago. (Winchester was making the push feed at that time). The SG is a beautiful rifle, sounds like you got a great dea! Enjoy your new rifle!
 

West Calamus

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May 23, 2019
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221
Location
texas
without running the calculations doesn't the higher M.V. of the 264 WM spin the bullet faster in a 1:9 barrel then say the same bullet in a lower M.V. 6.5 (creedmore) with a 1:8 twist?
 

West Calamus

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May 23, 2019
Messages
221
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texas
If one had a 1:7 twist with the muzzle velocities of a 264 W Mag wouldn't you spin the jackets off the bullets because of the excessive rotation speed?
 

DJ Fergus

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Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
2,358
If one had a 1:7 twist with the muzzle velocities of a 264 W Mag wouldn't you spin the jackets off the bullets because of the excessive rotation speed?
It's my understanding that with a 1:7 twist, when bullets start getting pushed to around 3200 fps & above, chances of the jacket getting slung off significantly increases. But that also has alot to do with a couple of other things. The bullet itself. A thin jacketed bullet would be more susceptible than a thicker jacketed bullet, or bonded bullets. The other thing that would make a difference is the rifling configuration. A 5R or 6 groove that's free from bore finish flaws & severe wear in a 1:7 twist would decrease the chances of slinging the jacket off of a thin jacketed bullet when pushed beyond 3200 fps.
 

Laguna Freak

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Jan 5, 2015
Messages
435
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South Central Texas, just north of the Wall
If you’re on the fence about a nice pre-64 Model 70 with a 1:9 twist (or an older Rem700 w same).. and you are enamored of the 142 ablr.... and you reallywant that combo to work so you feel good about buying it ... you wil be disappointed. I have been there. I have several of them and the 142 is not happy with any of them. The bullet they like is the 130 Nosler AB.
But you want to shoot the 142...sorry.
Please resign yourself to the fact that 1:9 is not the twist for success.
I, too, was enamored of the 142 but, in the end, I finallyhad a barrel maker cut rifle a barrel with the M70 profile and 1:8 twist and now all is well.
As bad as we may want something to work and challenge the existing logic, it generally doesn’t. Lots of us have paid beaucoup tuition for that lesson. In the end, do you want the rifle more than the bullet? I’d go with that fork and honor it with the bullet it is comfortable with. Though the 130 AB doesn’t quite have specs, only in very long range situations would the higher BC of the 142 be of critical importance. Maybe that helps you pull the trigger on your opportunity.
Thank you for sharing. I decided against the 142 ABLR for initial load development. Primarily because many folks counselled against it like you, and I shoot 0.4- moa with 150 AB @ 2911 fps in my 30-06 and could not justify 8 gr lighter terminal ballistics in the 264 WM at likely equal or lower mv. Also it became apparent to me that the 130 would likely provide better accuracy and less frustration for initial load development which I haven’t even started yet. I’m sitting on 100 130gr AB, 100 130gr Sierra TGK, and 3 lbs Retumbo when I finally get to this rifle. Hopefully will find more boolits soon...
 

Wolf01

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Aug 17, 2020
Messages
56
Location
Silver springs , Nv.
I've never tried any 6.5 with slower twist than
1:8, which seems to handle 130 to 156 gr bullets @1500' asl.

I'm building a new 264 wm set-up for the 156 EOL and 150 Sierra's, so I went with 1:7.5 twist.

You might get by, but that's taking a chance.
I have used 264 wm for over 20 yrs. Not in the last 20. I've not reloaded every thing for it, having said that, 1 in 8 is good up to about 140 ish. Hand loading this round is very rewarding. 1 in 7.5 is good for 160 grain.This was designed for long range elk. I've used such to 600 yards with 40 yr old bullets, and harvested. Deer are easy at 800.
 

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