260 Rem Vs. 6.5-06

[Bart B]

I used Rich's load of 63gr Retumbo/140 Berger @3150 for 2011 hunting season-outstanding! For rocks and gongs-140 Nosler Custom Competition bullets with 60gr H1000 coasts along at 3050. Both will hold 1/3 Moa past 1000yds

1/3 MOA past 1000 yards? That's kind of unbelievable. It's hard for me to imagine shooting bullets at targets past 1000 yards and each shot misses the point of aim no more than 1/6 MOA. That's what has to happen to hold 1/3 MOA past 1000 yards.

The most accurate 1000 yard benchrest rifles will hold about 5/8 to 3/4 MOA at 1000. At least that's what they do in the many-shot aggregate records they've set. But then, once in a while, they shoot a 5-shot screamer that's under 2 inches. Then sometimes, the next group's in the 7 inch range. Maybe they're more accurate when not fired in LR BR matches.

On second thoughts, it's very close to unbelievable. Bless you, and your rifle and ammo, if it's so.

 

[CliffM]

Bart,
I have seen the scores from some of the matches in Missoula and the way they shoot. I don't know what this rifle would do under those conditions
I usually shoot 3 shot groups. The rifle , load ,bullet will shoot that good. I the trigger puller, wind caller, etc. cannot. That is why in less than a year I have over 500 rounds down range with more to go before hunting season starts.
I shoot BPCR silhouette and Creedmoor matches and am teetering on master class. It is not the rifle or cartridge that hold me back but my ability to run it does. I can usually get 3-4 out of 5 good shots, sometimes 9 and the wheels fall of on the 10th.
Cliff

 

[Trickymissfit]

Hi Bart! I currently have 1500 rounds thru my Sherman and it still shoots 1/2 moa or less. I shoot 63-64 grains of Retumbo, depending on the brass, for 3150' with either the 140 Berger or A-Max. 62 grains of RL 25 will accomplish the same as well as several other powders. This is with a 26" barrel. It will top out at 3200', but brass life is short at those pressures. (cmantha) on this forum also has one and I think he will confirm the velocities. He only has around 200 hundred rounds or so on his......Rich

that's the sign of a good case design (barrel life)
gary

 

[rtsj]

that's the sign of a good case design (barrel life)
gary

The more I here about the 6.5 Sherman the more Im glad I chose that round for my first build. Now to determine what optics to top it with. Was thinking the Grey bull Precision. Spoke with them last night and told me there are future plans to offer the same scope with out the horizontal hash lines. That would suit me better. Also was told that John Burns is no longer with them.

Roy

 

[elkaholic]

that's the sign of a good case design (barrel life)
gary

Gary.....I'm a big believer in the 40 degree shoulder coupled with an adequately long neck to direct the flame inside the case mouth rather than the throat. Some people think it's a bunch of baloney but it works for me. My 30/375 S.I. has the same design, so we will see?.......Rich

 

[Trickymissfit]

Gary.....I'm a big believer in the 40 degree shoulder coupled with an adequately long neck to direct the flame inside the case mouth rather than the throat. Some people think it's a bunch of baloney but it works for me. My 30/375 S.I. has the same design, so we will see?.......Rich

Lets see now, I think it was Parker Ackley that told us this piece of news in 1967. But others told us ten years prior. And really this was nothing new, anyone with a back ground of physics and pneumatics already knew this. I'd suspect that barrel's gonna shoot just fine at the 1600 shot mark
gary

 

[Bart B]

I usually shoot 3 shot groups. The rifle , load ,bullet will shoot that good. I the trigger puller, wind caller, etc. cannot.

How do you "know" it'll hold 1/3 MOA past 1000 yards?

Has anyone shot several 3-shot groups with your rifle past 800 yards and beyond 1000 and all of 'em are under 1/3 MOA?

 

[WildRose]

How do you "know" it'll hold 1/3 MOA past 1000 yards?

Has anyone shot several 3-shot groups with your rifle past 800 yards and beyond 1000 and all of 'em are under 1/3 MOA?

Since when is a rifle/load's accuracy only verified by multiple users shooting the same combo?

 

[elkaholic]

Since when is a rifle/load's accuracy only verified by multiple users shooting the same combo?

Good question.....

 

[bigngreen]

There seem to be as many definitions of accuracy as there are internet experts, there are guys who think a rifle is only as accurate as it's largest or smallest group, some take the average. Some hold groups in complete contempt and only will accept multiple single shots at small dots or measure the accuracy as how far your cold bore is from point of aim not the size of a group, while others measure it in minute of hillside.
As a gun builder, hand loader and shooter I want to know as much as I can. It's not hard to get out and shoot a rifle enough to establish what represents the rifles best capability with the least amount of influence from the shooter, this for me becomes the base line that I'm striving for every time. Do I feed the rifle something it pukes up on, yes but I don't count that against the rifle but the loader, do I miss a cold bore wind call, heck ya but I don't count that to the rifle just the shooter. If you count everything to the rifle how then can you as a loader, shooter or gun builder find the room for improvement in yourself?

Some of the best shooting I've ever witnessed was done buy guys who would not get caught dead at the firing line of a BR comp but that does not make them or their rifle inferior.
The 6.5 Sherman is an out standing chambering and despite being on an old M70 action the thing shoots and shoots easy gun)

 

[elkaholic]

There seem to be as many definitions of accuracy as there are internet experts, there are guys who think a rifle is only as accurate as it's largest or smallest group, some take the average. Some hold groups in complete contempt and only will accept multiple single shots at small dots or measure the accuracy as how far your cold bore is from point of aim not the size of a group, while others measure it in minute of hillside.
As a gun builder, hand loader and shooter I want to know as much as I can. It's not hard to get out and shoot a rifle enough to establish what represents the rifles best capability with the least amount of influence from the shooter, this for me becomes the base line that I'm striving for every time. Do I feed the rifle something it pukes up on, yes but I don't count that against the rifle but the loader, do I miss a cold bore wind call, heck ya but I don't count that to the rifle just the shooter. If you count everything to the rifle how then can you as a loader, shooter or gun builder find the room for improvement in yourself?

Some of the best shooting I've ever witnessed was done buy guys who would not get caught dead at the firing line of a BR comp but that does not make them or their rifle inferior.
The 6.5 Sherman is an out standing chambering and despite being on an old M70 action the thing shoots and shoots easy gun)

Well put Rhian! I don't shoot .1 moa with my 30/375 S.I. every time (obviously) but the RIFLE is capable of it.......Rich

 

[Bart B]

Since when is a rifle/load's accuracy only verified by multiple users shooting the same combo?

"Anyone" refers to a single person. All I wanted to know is who has shot that rifle that well. If it's you, then say so. By the way your described your abilities to shoot it that well, I thought someone elsy may have. If you've never shot it that well, then how do you know it'll shoot that well? Surely someone has shot it that well, else you're only hoping it does.

I don't shoot .1 moa with my 30/375 S.I. every time (obviously) but the RIFLE is capable of it.Rich

All rifles are capable of shooting 1/10th MOA at any range. . . .once in a (great) while. You just have to shoot enough groups to finally get one that small. I've shot a 1-inch 3-consecutive-shot group with a Garand at 1000 yards. Did it only once. But there's no way I'd claim that 7.62 NATO M1 Shooting Sierra 190's was a 1/10th MOA rifle when in reality it would hold a bit over 1 MOA at 1000 with good handloads. That day Lady Luck was nice to me. . . .for three shots.

There seem to be as many definitions of accuracy as there are internet experts, there are guys who think a rifle is only as accurate as it's largest or smallest group, some take the average.

Very true.

I use the largest group for a given load as its measure of accuracy. That's what one can count on all the time. If one doesn't want to miss their point of aim by some amount, twice that amount is the accuracy the rifle and its ammo has to have.

 

[elkaholic]

"Anyone" refers to a single person. All I wanted to know is who has shot that rifle that well. If it's you, then say so. By the way your described your abilities to shoot it that well, I thought someone elsy may have. If you've never shot it that well, then how do you know it'll shoot that well? Surely someone has shot it that well, else you're only hoping it does.



All rifles are capable of shooting 1/10th MOA at any range. . . .once in a (great) while. You just have to shoot enough groups to finally get one that small. I've shot a 1-inch 3-consecutive-shot group with a Garand at 1000 yards. Did it only once. But there's no way I'd claim that 7.62 NATO M1 Shooting Sierra 190's was a 1/10th MOA rifle when in reality it would hold a bit over 1 MOA at 1000 with good handloads. That day Lady Luck was nice to me. . . .for three shots.

Very true.

I use the largest group for a given load as its measure of accuracy. That's what one can count on all the time. If one doesn't want to miss their point of aim by some amount, twice that amount is the accuracy the rifle and its ammo has to have.

Actually, I've shot quite a few .1 groups out of the 200+ rounds I've put thru this rifle so far but I would concede that it doesn't mean I can do so every time. If I could, I wouldn't be on this forum but sitting on the throne somewhere
I don't think that Cliff or others are trying to say anything other than that either. There are a lot of factors, other than the rifle, that keep us from shooting any given group size, as you well know. I think Cliff is saying he has a very good shooting rifle that he has "often" shot 1/3 moa with. I'm fine with not picking that apart to the n'th degree.....Rich

 

[Trickymissfit]

How do you "know" it'll hold 1/3 MOA past 1000 yards?

Has anyone shot several 3-shot groups with your rifle past 800 yards and beyond 1000 and all of 'em are under 1/3 MOA?

last time I looked the world record was 2.81" at 1000 yards, and I suspect that a 4.5" group will win 90% of the shoots out there
gary