? .260 rem ackley
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BTM,
I am not the person you want but I did give it some thought before going .260Rem
Dies can be had, custom from Neil Jones, but not cheap or I emailed Redding, possible to get them to re-ream the body die. Neck and seating die should work from .260Rem, but check.
Reameres, Dave Kifff or Clymer etc.
On Snipers Hide Terry Cross use .260AI and is very well respected.
David.
I am not the person you want but I did give it some thought before going .260Rem
Dies can be had, custom from Neil Jones, but not cheap or I emailed Redding, possible to get them to re-ream the body die. Neck and seating die should work from .260Rem, but check.
Reameres, Dave Kifff or Clymer etc.
On Snipers Hide Terry Cross use .260AI and is very well respected.
David.
308 nate
Well-Known Member
BTM,
I just finished my .260 AI and have done a little reloading for it.What Iv'e been using is the Lee collet die for neck sizing and just the standard seating die.My brother in law has been doing this with a 6MM AIwith great results.If you keep your preasures reasonable you shouldn't have to full length re-size for at least 7or8 re-loads.I don't have a problem with custom match dies,it's just that money's hard to come by.I do have several Redding and forrester dies but the Lee collet dies hang right in there,in my experiance.
FWIW,
308nate
P.S I'll post some pixs and info on my .260AI within a week or so.
I just finished my .260 AI and have done a little reloading for it.What Iv'e been using is the Lee collet die for neck sizing and just the standard seating die.My brother in law has been doing this with a 6MM AIwith great results.If you keep your preasures reasonable you shouldn't have to full length re-size for at least 7or8 re-loads.I don't have a problem with custom match dies,it's just that money's hard to come by.I do have several Redding and forrester dies but the Lee collet dies hang right in there,in my experiance.
FWIW,
308nate
P.S I'll post some pixs and info on my .260AI within a week or so.
308 nate.. are you the one that posted some velocities a couple weeks ago??? that got me thinking about one...... i think i am going to build one for my wife to shoot 500yd groundhog matches around here.. i think it might work good... what twist did you guys put in yours?
thanks for the info guys.. i never even thought about the collet dies.. a buddy used them for his 22-250ackley and worked good.... forgot all about that...
Brien
thanks for the info guys.. i never even thought about the collet dies.. a buddy used them for his 22-250ackley and worked good.... forgot all about that...
Brien
chris matthews
Well-Known Member
Redding might make them as a semi-standard die set as the ackleys are fairly common....
308 nate
Well-Known Member
BTM,
No, that was not me that posted velocities.I haven't conied mine yet but hope too soon.There just isn't enough hours in a day.Iv'e got a 1 in 8 twist Broughon 5C 25" long.
in a few days I'll post all the details for my .260 AI.
308nate
No, that was not me that posted velocities.I haven't conied mine yet but hope too soon.There just isn't enough hours in a day.Iv'e got a 1 in 8 twist Broughon 5C 25" long.
in a few days I'll post all the details for my .260 AI.
308nate
Mysticplayer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2001
- Messages
- 1,459
Here is some info on a wildcat I developed. Info was posted at xtremeaccuracy.com. A very nice cartridge and will serve you well. However, also consider a fast twist 22 or 6mm. For varmint shooting, might be more then enough.
Enjoy...
Since posting about my 6.5 Mystic in another post, there has been a number who have requested info and specs. Here it is:
The purpose of the design was to make a 1000yd BR cartridge that used a readily available, accurate, strong and cheap brass. Had to allow for near or 100% load density. Enough neck length for proper neck tension. Sufficient velocity to make it effective at 1000yd/m. Of course, be accurate, low in recoil, give relatively long barrel life, feed from mag in case of rapid fire requirements, use ballistically superior bullets, easy to get dies and components.
I studied the 6.5-284, an excellent cartridge in its own right, and found that max velocity was not often the most accurate, throat wear was considered high, recoil moderate but still a little on the high side, case rarely if ever full (this is a personal opinion. I like full cases of powder), components were a bit pricey. BUT it shoots very well. Most seem to launch 140/142gr match bullets around 3000fps.
What to do? For me, the answer was to make a slightly smaller case and basing that case on readily available brass. That lead to the use of the 308 Win case.
This is an improved wildcat where the shoulder is moved as far forward as possible and still leave a calibre long neck. Shoulder angle is 35 degs. Throat is extended to allow 140/142gr match bullets to seat well out to reduce case intrusion. If you look at the picture, you will see the comparision with the parent 308 case.
This case will not fit in a short action mag. A medium length action ie 7X57 mauser length is ideal. Of course, a standard length '06 action would also work just fine. Push feed actions are prefered as the sharp shoulder will not work in some controlled feed actions.
Of course, this is moot in most BR single shot actions.
Prep of this brass is very easy. First 308 win brass is sized at 30 cal and neck turned to 12 thou. The brass is then run through a 7mm neck sizing die to form the secondary shoulder. Location is such that when chambered, the bolt requires firm pressure to close. Cases are then fireformed using the cream of wheat method and out pops a case with a shoulder 90% formed. The first high pressure load finishes the job. I have yet to loose a case using this forming method.
I did my testing in a 25" aftermarket barrel, a bit short but was cheap. Velocites reached 2800fps but accurate vel for that barrel was around 2750fps. In a 28 to 30" match barrel, reaching 2850 to 2900fps should be no issue.
The slight difference in velocity isn't going to amount to that much more wind drift in the real world. Something I was willing to live with.
The rifle proved very easy to load for and accurate. A full, ever so slightly compressed load of H4831SC, gave the best results when lit with either Fed 210M or CCI BR2 primers. I used Fed Gold Medal brass which has a smaller capacity then Winchester. I was able to use 48gr of my lot of H4831SC and would expect up to 49gr using Win brass in this rifle.
The bullets are seated way out. In the picture, the bullet used is the then new 140gr SST which measures a very long 1.40". The boattail sits right at the shoulder/case juction leaving the whole case neck to hold on to the bullet. Perfect. The chamber throated so that the bullet was just off the lands. That could be adjusted to suit your style of land engagement.
At 200m, groups were 5rds in 1/2" or less. I am no BR shooter and this was no BR rifle, but was still very happy with the results. A match rifle/shooter would probably do much better. I did shoot several groups which were one hole. I believe the shooter was the weak link here. :lol:
So the design has met all my criteria for function and performance. Using approx 3/4 the powder of the 6.5-284 will help extend throat life and of course, reduce recoil. Case life is great and trimming not really needed when using the collet die.
Some testing the 6.5 WSSM improved case are using the same amount of powder to get the same velocity. For me, I trust that I can always get 308Win brass. Not so sure about the WSSM.
The best part is that custom dies do not need to be used for this wildcat. I use Lee Collet neck die in 260Rem with a shim (metal washer actually). Works perfectly. I seat bullets using the 260 bullet seater with no problems. One can easily adapt all available 260 bushing and sizing dies to work. This saves you a bunch of money. Can't be said for the WSSM wildcats.
I have really enjoyed this project from concept through to creation. The fact that it has met my expectations is a wonderful bonus. I am about to build a 16.5lbs BR type rifle in this cartridge to fully explore its potential.
If this is something you want to try, let me know and I will send you details on how to cut the chamber and a case to use as a headspace guage. Many gunsmiths already have the proper reamers on hand. Again a huge savings not needing another custom reamer.
Enjoy...
Jerry
Enjoy...
Since posting about my 6.5 Mystic in another post, there has been a number who have requested info and specs. Here it is:
The purpose of the design was to make a 1000yd BR cartridge that used a readily available, accurate, strong and cheap brass. Had to allow for near or 100% load density. Enough neck length for proper neck tension. Sufficient velocity to make it effective at 1000yd/m. Of course, be accurate, low in recoil, give relatively long barrel life, feed from mag in case of rapid fire requirements, use ballistically superior bullets, easy to get dies and components.
I studied the 6.5-284, an excellent cartridge in its own right, and found that max velocity was not often the most accurate, throat wear was considered high, recoil moderate but still a little on the high side, case rarely if ever full (this is a personal opinion. I like full cases of powder), components were a bit pricey. BUT it shoots very well. Most seem to launch 140/142gr match bullets around 3000fps.
What to do? For me, the answer was to make a slightly smaller case and basing that case on readily available brass. That lead to the use of the 308 Win case.
This is an improved wildcat where the shoulder is moved as far forward as possible and still leave a calibre long neck. Shoulder angle is 35 degs. Throat is extended to allow 140/142gr match bullets to seat well out to reduce case intrusion. If you look at the picture, you will see the comparision with the parent 308 case.
This case will not fit in a short action mag. A medium length action ie 7X57 mauser length is ideal. Of course, a standard length '06 action would also work just fine. Push feed actions are prefered as the sharp shoulder will not work in some controlled feed actions.
Of course, this is moot in most BR single shot actions.
Prep of this brass is very easy. First 308 win brass is sized at 30 cal and neck turned to 12 thou. The brass is then run through a 7mm neck sizing die to form the secondary shoulder. Location is such that when chambered, the bolt requires firm pressure to close. Cases are then fireformed using the cream of wheat method and out pops a case with a shoulder 90% formed. The first high pressure load finishes the job. I have yet to loose a case using this forming method.
I did my testing in a 25" aftermarket barrel, a bit short but was cheap. Velocites reached 2800fps but accurate vel for that barrel was around 2750fps. In a 28 to 30" match barrel, reaching 2850 to 2900fps should be no issue.
The slight difference in velocity isn't going to amount to that much more wind drift in the real world. Something I was willing to live with.
The rifle proved very easy to load for and accurate. A full, ever so slightly compressed load of H4831SC, gave the best results when lit with either Fed 210M or CCI BR2 primers. I used Fed Gold Medal brass which has a smaller capacity then Winchester. I was able to use 48gr of my lot of H4831SC and would expect up to 49gr using Win brass in this rifle.
The bullets are seated way out. In the picture, the bullet used is the then new 140gr SST which measures a very long 1.40". The boattail sits right at the shoulder/case juction leaving the whole case neck to hold on to the bullet. Perfect. The chamber throated so that the bullet was just off the lands. That could be adjusted to suit your style of land engagement.
At 200m, groups were 5rds in 1/2" or less. I am no BR shooter and this was no BR rifle, but was still very happy with the results. A match rifle/shooter would probably do much better. I did shoot several groups which were one hole. I believe the shooter was the weak link here. :lol:
So the design has met all my criteria for function and performance. Using approx 3/4 the powder of the 6.5-284 will help extend throat life and of course, reduce recoil. Case life is great and trimming not really needed when using the collet die.
Some testing the 6.5 WSSM improved case are using the same amount of powder to get the same velocity. For me, I trust that I can always get 308Win brass. Not so sure about the WSSM.
The best part is that custom dies do not need to be used for this wildcat. I use Lee Collet neck die in 260Rem with a shim (metal washer actually). Works perfectly. I seat bullets using the 260 bullet seater with no problems. One can easily adapt all available 260 bushing and sizing dies to work. This saves you a bunch of money. Can't be said for the WSSM wildcats.
I have really enjoyed this project from concept through to creation. The fact that it has met my expectations is a wonderful bonus. I am about to build a 16.5lbs BR type rifle in this cartridge to fully explore its potential.
If this is something you want to try, let me know and I will send you details on how to cut the chamber and a case to use as a headspace guage. Many gunsmiths already have the proper reamers on hand. Again a huge savings not needing another custom reamer.
Enjoy...
Jerry
260shooter
Well-Known Member
BTM:
My Dad had a 260 REM IMP built this winter. Redding does carry the bushing neck die, you have to call Redding. If memory serves me the cost was $109.00. Bought a wilson blank with a 6.5 pilot hole and had it reamed with the same reamer used to chamber the rifle.
The rifle is for F-Class and has shot several 5-shot groups 1" to 1.25" groups at 300 yards. Sierra 142's are running 2850fps with 43.5 gr of H4350.
The ammo made with these dies is very consistant. I spun 10 of 50 on a concentricity guage and everyone of them was .0015 or less. We bought REM 260 brass and preped it all then weight sorted to get two large groups, each group being within one grain in weight. 238 pieces in one and 241 in the other.
This is the 2nd Ackley I have worked with. Easy to load for, just fireform and load. My Dad actually shot fireform loads in a 500 yard match (140 gr BTSP) along with shooting steel plates at 1000 yards. Will be shooting a 1000 yard match at the end of May. I know the rifle will shoot well.
260
My Dad had a 260 REM IMP built this winter. Redding does carry the bushing neck die, you have to call Redding. If memory serves me the cost was $109.00. Bought a wilson blank with a 6.5 pilot hole and had it reamed with the same reamer used to chamber the rifle.
The rifle is for F-Class and has shot several 5-shot groups 1" to 1.25" groups at 300 yards. Sierra 142's are running 2850fps with 43.5 gr of H4350.
The ammo made with these dies is very consistant. I spun 10 of 50 on a concentricity guage and everyone of them was .0015 or less. We bought REM 260 brass and preped it all then weight sorted to get two large groups, each group being within one grain in weight. 238 pieces in one and 241 in the other.
This is the 2nd Ackley I have worked with. Easy to load for, just fireform and load. My Dad actually shot fireform loads in a 500 yard match (140 gr BTSP) along with shooting steel plates at 1000 yards. Will be shooting a 1000 yard match at the end of May. I know the rifle will shoot well.
260
I love mine, built on a M700SA, PacNor 27"/1-8 Sendaro profil. I'm shooting 139grLapua & 142grSMk @ 2850fps w/ 43gr H4350 or 48gr IMR7828. If I'm having a good day it will stay in .5moa out @ 300. The 123grLapua will get 3100fps w/ 47grH4350 or 48.5gr RL19.
I have Redding FL dies but use a Lee .260NS for my loads. RP .260 brass or neck up Lapua .243. It's also very accurate w/ 85-90grHP @ 3400fps.
I have Redding FL dies but use a Lee .260NS for my loads. RP .260 brass or neck up Lapua .243. It's also very accurate w/ 85-90grHP @ 3400fps.
3sixbits
Well-Known Member
Jerry Teo: it has been my experience with all ctgs with a 35 deg. shoulder that these case are a trim once and never again for the life of the case. It is easier to control the bump back on the shoulder without collapse of the shoulder as on the 40deg. shoulder. Just my two cents, I like your thinking on your 6.5mm Mystic. In a perfect world of the 6.5mm we would have a neck with more length to allow us to chase the engagement as the throat erodes by seating the bullet out further. But a guy can't have everything huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Mysticplayer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2001
- Messages
- 1,459
Well, you can. Just use the Mauser case and cut it down.
There was a very interesting 6mm 1000yd BR case that had the shoulder/neck of the 6mm rem but the bottom similar to a stretched 6BR.
I guess you could call it a long neck 6XC.
There certainly is no problem using a longer neck case in the 6.5 Mystic chamber.
Jerry
There was a very interesting 6mm 1000yd BR case that had the shoulder/neck of the 6mm rem but the bottom similar to a stretched 6BR.
I guess you could call it a long neck 6XC.
There certainly is no problem using a longer neck case in the 6.5 Mystic chamber.
Jerry
3sixbits
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well, you can. Just use the Mauser case and cut it down.
There was a very interesting 6mm 1000yd BR case that had the shoulder/neck of the 6mm rem but the bottom similar to a stretched 6BR.
I guess you could call it a long neck 6XC.
There certainly is no problem using a longer neck case in the 6.5 Mystic chamber.
Jerry
[/ QUOTE ] Which case (longer) would you use in your Mystic chamber to get the longer neck?
Well, you can. Just use the Mauser case and cut it down.
There was a very interesting 6mm 1000yd BR case that had the shoulder/neck of the 6mm rem but the bottom similar to a stretched 6BR.
I guess you could call it a long neck 6XC.
There certainly is no problem using a longer neck case in the 6.5 Mystic chamber.
Jerry
[/ QUOTE ] Which case (longer) would you use in your Mystic chamber to get the longer neck?
