.243 AI and Redding comp. neck sizing dies

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Jimm, Jun 18, 2005.

  1. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    When I set my redding comp die up according to instructions the neck on my fired cases are only getting sized down to within .065 of the shoulder. Is this right?I back off .005 after setting the die body off the shellholder ,leave the ram up ,turn the mike down untill it touches .then back off .005 .I was under the impression that you could size all the way to the shoulder. I'm sure I'm gimping this up somewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif HELP!

    Thanks guys , Jim
     
  2. dcb

    dcb Well-Known Member

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    the entire neck if the die is set in the press right.By this I mean if you turn down the micrometer top to far to start with the full neck wont get sized because the primer stem will hit the case.Back the top way off then set the die to just make contact with the shellholder once that is done turn down the top till it sizes the entire neck and pushes the primer out at the same time.
     
  3. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    dcb,
    Do you have these dies?I loosened the lock allen screw and screwed the decapper stem all the way up, backed off the mike body untill it was barely on, run the ram up, screwed the mike body down till it bottomed, all to no avail! The neck is still only sized down to within .065 of the shoulder. HELP ! Jim
     
  4. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    Jimm,
    I found that if the Mic is turned down to far upon setting up, it wont allow the sliding sleeve to move all the way back into the die body leaving it about a 1/16" proud of the bottom of the die.
    Try this:

    Back the Mic off a good deal then re-set your die against the shell-holder with the ram fully in the up position, by allowing the sleeve to touch the shell holder and winding the body of the down untill it too touches the shell holder.
    Note the position of the scale and rotate the die body counter-clockwise untill the scale is in the "6 oclock" position directly in front of you.
    If the scale is past the 6 oclock position before counter winding, make sure that you counter wind 1 complete revolution and the bit extra, to put the scale in the right position.
    I then smoke a case neck and wind down the micrometer untill the desired length of neck size is achieved.

    This works for me, i hope it works for you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Ian.

    "I mean't to shoot the pike but the duck got in the way"
     
  5. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    Ian,
    Mike all the way up,die body against the shell holder(sliding sleeve completely compressed), turn die body counter clockwise until mike gradations are in front,lock ring set ,turn mike down untill contact(wont go any further), back off five fine marks( wont call it .005 because it's not that precise)lower ram , insert case , raise ram, lower ram , inspect case.Case is sized to within approx. .065 of the junction of the neck and shoulder , will not size further! All above according to the destructions /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. The sliding sleeve is marked .243 Win. Imp b/nk(don't know what the b/nk stands for ) Btw, the decap rod is adjusted as far up as it can go, so it's not bottoming out in the case.If the sleeve is not proper in the area where the case neck passes through the sleeve hole then the neck cant be sized completely ,I don't know what else it could be.
    Thanks for thinking about it, Jim
     
  6. dcb

    dcb Well-Known Member

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    OK!! I had a problem with a set of redding dies and called and talked to a tech. The "die" was marked 243 win imp. the other letters are date codes.
    After an extensive conversation with the tech he determined that there is a diffrence in the dies between 243 win imp and a 243 ackley imp. I sent 5 fireformed cases and the die back to redding and they replaced the die body but it still is stamped with 243 win imp.
    The problem that i had was with case run out after resizing.
    Also what brass are you using maybe the neck to sholder angle is diffrent from the chamber to the die . if the case touches at the sholder before the neck is all the way up in the bushing,? just A thought. is it a 40* chamber and is the die 40*
     
  7. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    dcb
    Thanks for the reply,about to pull my hair out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.I think that is the problem as my chamber is a .243 AI barreled by GA Precision.The die as I mentioned is marked 40* ,but is win imp,always thought they were the same.I have run standard .243 brass through the die and it still wont resize all the neck.Also ran a fireformed case in it and same results. I sent a email to Redding and will probably be sending them the die and five fireformed cases as you did. Will let everyone know the outcome.

    Thanks again , Jim
     
  8. dcb

    dcb Well-Known Member

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    a while back I was looking for information on the diffrence of two cartrages . lost track and gave up on the redding die. After I got the new die the run out was no acceptable the best i could get was .003"
    I picked up a cheap collet die and am very happy now.
     
  9. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    Jimm,
    Before you go any further i think it could be the winding down of the micrometer, then backing off 005" that is causing you the problem, "DONT DO THIS".
    Leave the micrometer backed off insert the case, ram all the way up and start turning the micrometer down .050" at a time untill you start sizing the neck, them adjust accrdingly. If this does not work then your dies are most likely suspect, just thought i must check my own 243 ackley improved dies to see if i ahve a problem-Ooops i have let the cat out of the bag, yes i now have a 243 Ackley sat in my safe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I am waiting for a base, so watch this space for a full report.

    Ian.

    "I mean't to shoot the pike but the duck got inthe way"
     
  10. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    I have just checked my own dies, they too say 243 win imp. 40 degrees, it is evening time here in the UK now so i will set up the dies tomorrow and do a test.
    Ths previous observations are what i found out on both my 243 and 300wsm competition dies, when the case neck would not be completely resized if following factory instructions
    during set up.

    Ian.

    "I mean't to shoot the pike but the duck got in the way"
     
  11. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    Ian , hey guy , the redding instructions specifically point to this setting as the "most" sizing possible.The die is going back to
    Redding with 5 fireformed cases(they sure are pretty with them shoulders blowed out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif)
    AS a matter of fact so are the comp seating dies.
    I can hardly wait to shoot (waiting on scope back from Leupold) The weather is near perfect right now,still ,dry not humid, mid 70's ,not our normal this time of year.Oh well ,there will be other days. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Jim
     
  12. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    dcb, I must admit to some confusion re: your posts .Did'nt you say you got your dies fixed by Redding in your previous post?So what cartridge 's are you referring to in the followup post where you "gave up" on the Reddings?I also have inexpensive collet dies but in my estimation they are not cheap but rather well made and the performance is even more astounding because of the relatively low cost.

    It is my plan to do a comparison of the two types of dies over a period of time.Using components as close as possible ,same # of reloads,checking all dimensions relevant.I must say however that I probably will be duplicating countless others in these efforts. There are many on this site that can shoot rings around most of us here that use the Lee collet dies.Perhaps in the end it is the shooter that brings more to the table than the equipment.

    Thanks for the thoughts /advice , Jim
     
  13. dcb

    dcb Well-Known Member

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    jim the redding die was better after i got it back. in the beginning the runout was .006" to .008" now it is at .003" some times a little better.
    I pick it up and look at it on an occasion and think about the $100 I have in it and put it back on the pile of pappers.
    I will call redding again and complain but the teck told me that the only gurantee a die to .003" run out that is .0015" per side? WHAT? i just shook my head and mummmm
    bled.
    Cheap meaning less expensive lee than redding.
    iloaded 50 cases using the lee collet the redding seater and run out is .0005 to .001 with some tweaking on the seater
    and triming the meplat i think they will be better.
    i am at work and keep getting interupted sorry about the confusion. hopefully this is a better explination
     
  14. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    Jimm,
    Guess what? my 243AI neck bushing die shows the same problem as you have, only sizing .190" of the neck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif.
    I therefore decided to do a comparison test between my 243win and the 243AI neck die.

    I stripped down both dies and took measuremants of the length of the internal components, the conclusion i came to, was that the chamber in the sliding sleeve needs to be cut .030" deeper or the bushing seat cut deeper to the same amount.
    I pushed a brand new Lapua case into each of the sleeves and measured the protrusion of the neck through the hole where thw bushing normally sits.
    The 243 measured .222" from the case mouth to the bushing seat and the 243AI measured .220"

    On re-assembly the 243 sized a .218" length of neck and the 243AI only .190" as stated earlier.
    I have been using the 243 die at this maximum adjustment for the last 2 yesrs with no problems at all.
    The reason why the 243AI die only sized .190" is that everything locks up and does not allow any more adjustment.

    I chucked the bushing plunger in the lathe and skimmed .020" off the small end, this gave me another .010" of sizing length before it all locked up again.
    I skimmed another .020" but this made no difference at all.

    I am wondering wether to send the dies back to redding or do a modification myself, the official importers are about as much use as teets on a bull and i'm not sure about the cost and time involved sending them from the UK.
    I will let you all know what happened in the near future.

    Ian.

    "I mean't to shoot the pike but thr duck got in the way"

    Oooh! by the way i also have a 243AI "S Type" bushing neck die and this too sizes only .190" of the neck at maximum adjustment /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif.