Been using the 80 grain VLD's in my .223 for a couple of months now and have been very impressed with the performance on live targets. I started off with a few short range bunnies and the VLD's opened the bunnies up very similar to the effects more familar with V-Max, so I tried them at extended ranges and have now used them on rabbits out to 400yds with similar results. I then tried a fox with the 80 grain VLD's at 150yds and again they worked well. The shot was broadside to the front end of the chest dropping the fox on the spot without taking another step. It didn't have the V-Max effect but the end result was an instant clean kill all the same. Yesterday I took my first Muntie (Small deer) with them and again the shot was broadside taken at 250yds. The shot placement was approximately 3" above the shoulder to the chest and the Muntie stopped on the spot without taking another step. The bullet entry hole was very small but made a 1" exit wound which seemed to do the job perfectly. Having used them on live targets I have no qualms continuing on targets upto Muntie sized out to 250yds and rabbits at extended ranges, I am a big fan of Berger bullet as they have worked well in every rifle I have ever shot and I am yet to have a runner when hunting with them in varmint or VLD design. I don't think your ever going to get such a destructive effect as you get with V-Max, but as I eat a lot of what I shoot I don't want that destructive effect anyway. For me the Berger accuracy suits my needs better. FYI >>> Muntjac also known locally as Munties.