I'm looking at shooting 70-75gr bullets and wondering if I need to have a 1:8 or 1:9 twist. Will the stardard 1:14 work?
Thoughts Please
Thoughts Please
22-250 twist rate
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benchracer
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A 14 twist won't even come close to working for 70-75 grain bullets. The 14 twist I had wouldn't even shoot well with 55 grain bullets.
My 9 twist .223 shoots 75 AMAX accurately @ 2850, though the marginal stability results in reduced bc.
An 8 twist would fully stabilize the 75 AMAX/ELD's in all conditions, yielding full bc values.
Kevin Rohrer
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The internet is a valuable search tool, provided people use it.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
Creedmoor shooter
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If you want to shoot heavies then I'd just get the 1:7 and be done with it. Then you can shoot 80+ grains as well as the 70-75s
I have a 8" twist Brux , awesome accuracy and I can shoot 55gr bullets very well,but nothing lighter.
TracySes23
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My 22-250 has a 1:8 twist & it shoots the 53 grain Hornady V-Max as good or better than anything else I've put thru it. A 1:7 twist could possibly cause lighter bullets to disintegrate on the way to the target.
At 3500 fps a bullet spins at 315,000 rpm w/a 1:8 twist. with a 1:7 twist it's spinning at 360,000 rpm. As good as that 53 grain V-Max shoots, I'd think twice about a 1:7 twist. Especially if you are on a budget. I'm pretty certain 80 grain Hornadys will stabilize fine in your rifle. Unless you're shooting long range completion, then maybe the extremely heavy bullets are better for you.
I've shot my rifle w/a Shilen 22-250 tight necked chamber at maximum loads with that 53 grain Hornady V-Max & they shoot great for me, but I don't intend to shoot competition. Those heavies are expensive. I've seen the 53 grain Hornady V-Max for $15.00 per 100 on more than one occasion. Give those VMax 53 grain a try. They also have a higher BC at .290 than any of the 60 grain 22 caliber bullets that Hornady sells & almost as high as the Sierra 69 grain HPBT, which is .301. You already have a 1:8 twist which will only cost you a box of bullets to see what that 53 grain V-Max can do in you gun. Check out the customer reviews at MidwayUSA for that V-Max 53 grain.
Tracyes23 I lied ,actually I have shot the 53gr V-max and they shot well.In fact blew Montana Prairie dogs up quite nicely.I'm concerned about bbl life with those little devils.... Main bullet I shoot is the 77gr Sierra TMK, with 37.5grs of Re#19 I get 3300 FPS (26" bbl) and the MT prairie dogs don't like those either.
Aoudad shooter1975
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1-8 will work great for anything up to 80...1-7 above that...a 1-7 will shoot most 50 grain and lighter terrible
TracySes23
Well-Known Member
My 9 twist .223 shoots 75 AMAX accurately @ 2850, though the marginal stability results in reduced bc.
I really liked the 75 grain A-Max in my 22-250. When I attempted to order more I discovered they discontinued making them. Since I don't hunt I have no use for the 75 Gr. ELD Match bullet which is more expensive & I doubt it'll shoot any better.
I also have good luck with Hornady's 60 gr. flat base HP.
Years ago I used to have excellent results with Sierra's 63 gr. semi-pointed. Reviews at MidwayUSA have nearly all 5 star reviews for it. Since I have 5 boxes of them left over from my days of a small gun shop in my basement, I'm looking forward to seeing how well they shoot from my SavageBR LRPV.
A full bc values.[/QUOTE]
I really liked the 75 grain A-Max in my 22-250. When I attempted to order more I discovered they discontinued making them. Since I don't hunt I have no use for the 75 Gr. ELD Match bullet which is more expensive & I doubt it'll shoot any better.
I also have good luck with Hornady's 60 gr. flat base HP.
Years ago I used to have excellent results with Sierra's 63 gr. semi-pointed. Reviews at MidwayUSA have nearly all 5 star reviews for it. Since I have 5 boxes of them left over from my days of a small gun shop in my basement, I'm looking forward to seeing how well they shoot from my SavageBR LRPV.
A full bc values.[/QUOTE]
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benchracer
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It's interesting to read first hand experiences with 8 twist 22-250's. I have long wondered where the dividing line would be, in terms of twist, between having a specialized rig and having a rifle that would handle the heavies, while still working well with a wide variety of bullets.
Based on my experience with a 9 twist .223/5.56, I expected that a 9 twist would be a safe choice (though it still may be less than ideal with something like the 75 AMAX). The 53 VMAX is one of my favorite .224 bullets. I am glad to hear that it still works well in an 8 twist 22-250. Given that the 8 twist is about right for the 75's, it seems like an excellent overall choice.
My current 22-250 barrel is a 12 twist. I have long planned to go with a faster twist on my next barrel, but wasn't sure where to draw the line. Looks like 8 is the way to go...
Based on my experience with a 9 twist .223/5.56, I expected that a 9 twist would be a safe choice (though it still may be less than ideal with something like the 75 AMAX). The 53 VMAX is one of my favorite .224 bullets. I am glad to hear that it still works well in an 8 twist 22-250. Given that the 8 twist is about right for the 75's, it seems like an excellent overall choice.
My current 22-250 barrel is a 12 twist. I have long planned to go with a faster twist on my next barrel, but wasn't sure where to draw the line. Looks like 8 is the way to go...
benchracer
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A couple of comments about specific bullets caught my interest. Just thought I would throw my .02 into the discussion...
I went looking for the Litz data sheet on the 69 SMK, but couldn't find it. IIRC, Bryan Litz's testing showed that Sierra's bc numbers significantly underestimate the performance of the 69 SMK. The Litz-tested average bc for the 69 SMK was .338 G1. If you have the proper twist, the SMK has a significant bc advantage over the 53 VMAX.
In my rifle, I am able to shoot the 53 VMAX @ 3900+ and the 69 SMK @ 3600+ fps. Because I don't really have the right twist for the 69's, it's difficult to fairly evaluate them against the 53's. If I did have the right twist, JBM calculations show that the 69 wouldn't start to overtake the 53 (in terms of drop and drift) until somewhere around 400 yards.
I have noted a number of similar comments recently. It seems to me there is some confusion out there regarding the AMAX/ELD bullets. The ELD-X is the hunting bullet, not the ELD Match. The 75 AMAX didn't really go away. The ELD Match is the SAME bullet with the new "heat shield" plastic tip. That is the ONLY difference, other than the fact that Hornady seems to think the change in plastic is worth a significant jump in price...
I went looking for the Litz data sheet on the 69 SMK, but couldn't find it. IIRC, Bryan Litz's testing showed that Sierra's bc numbers significantly underestimate the performance of the 69 SMK. The Litz-tested average bc for the 69 SMK was .338 G1. If you have the proper twist, the SMK has a significant bc advantage over the 53 VMAX.
In my rifle, I am able to shoot the 53 VMAX @ 3900+ and the 69 SMK @ 3600+ fps. Because I don't really have the right twist for the 69's, it's difficult to fairly evaluate them against the 53's. If I did have the right twist, JBM calculations show that the 69 wouldn't start to overtake the 53 (in terms of drop and drift) until somewhere around 400 yards.
I have noted a number of similar comments recently. It seems to me there is some confusion out there regarding the AMAX/ELD bullets. The ELD-X is the hunting bullet, not the ELD Match. The 75 AMAX didn't really go away. The ELD Match is the SAME bullet with the new "heat shield" plastic tip. That is the ONLY difference, other than the fact that Hornady seems to think the change in plastic is worth a significant jump in price...
TracySes23
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Engineering101
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I agree that an 8 twist is the way to go unless you want to go beyond 80 grains. I've got an 8 twist Brux also and I run the 80 grain match king (BC=0.461) with an SG = 1.51 at sea level. The first 3 shots ever fired with that bullet grouped 0.172" at 200 yards. Load development was basically done. Also I absolutely love the 53 grain VMAX in my 223 Rem for all the reasons mentioned above. I take both guns after Montana prairie dogs - having two guns helps keep you from melting barrels. Also let me make a comment about velocity - if you get into a pile of prairie dogs you really can melt a barrel and running 3,800 fps just makes that happen faster. Back down on the V. The dogs will still blow up just fine - burns less powder too.
benchracer
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It is certainly true that a 22-250 is not an ideal prairie dog rifle. It is also true that the 53 VMAX blows prairie dogs up just as well at 3200 as it does at 3800. Oddly enough, I have witnessed more spectacular kills at .223 velocities than I have at 22-250 velocities. For reasons I don't understand, the 22-250 kills seem to be more emphatic, but less spectacular.
Shooting in 100* temps, my 22-250 needs to cool down after about 5 rounds are fired, while my .223/5.56 needs to cool down after 10 rounds or so. The real virtue of the additional 700 fps from my 22-250 is that it is much easier to shoot in the wind. Backing off the throttle makes no sense. If you are going to do that, you may as well carry two .223's and be done with it.
Shooting in 100* temps, my 22-250 needs to cool down after about 5 rounds are fired, while my .223/5.56 needs to cool down after 10 rounds or so. The real virtue of the additional 700 fps from my 22-250 is that it is much easier to shoot in the wind. Backing off the throttle makes no sense. If you are going to do that, you may as well carry two .223's and be done with it.
