215 Berger Target for hunting

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by kcebcj, May 10, 2019.


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  1. rfurman24

    rfurman24 Well-Known Member

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    You will see reports all over the place for the 300WM with 215s. I have had one with a 27" and one with a 28" barrel. Both allowed seating the bullet above the NSJ. They pushed the 215 2890 and 2950 respectively. Some get faster but I would not build a custom expecting something that may not happen. The problem with the WSM is twofold. One is some guys are shooting them in short mag boxes and often short barrels with powders not really well suited for the cartridge. The second is guys who I trust their data more are looking for a node good enough to win but not too fast to induce unnecessary torque and most often use looooong barrel. I will say that there is no doubt the WSM will be more efficient. On average it is going to loose 100 FPS to the WM with both set up the same.
     
  2. Educated Redneck

    Educated Redneck Active Member

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    This would be correct thinking on most cartridges. Usually hand loaders want a LONGER throat as to seat the bullet out further in the case and they ask the barrel maker to provide a longer custom throat based on a few concentric dummy rounds or via a print. The smith runs a throat reamer after they do the whole chamber to accommodate this (I think I have that right). I think that's what you wanted to do right. Problem is with the stock factory sammi or what ever it is reamer for a weatherby chamber has a very long throat from the get go. Not weatherby guns per say, but the chamber designs named after them is what I mean. To my knowledge, they all have very long throats. If I was making a custom weatherby, I'd ask them to make a throat SHORTER than a factory chambering as to touch, seat, or jump the lands during my load development as you mentioned you desire. To do this from a smith standpoint specifically on a weathby reamer, you'd need just a chamber reamer that does not cut the throat (these reamers are rare and your smith likely didn't have one), and then do the throat after the body is reamed. You'd ask the smith to ream the thoat shorter than saami in this case. Said another way, weatherby chambers all have LONG throats from the factory and so would any ordinary reamer. The long throat was an old school trick to increase velocity without increasing pressure. Big jump = more speed and less pressure versus into the lands. For this reason and the fact that most weatherby chamberings are overbore and excessive powder capacity for the caliber (you can only make a bullet go so fast before the pressure goes up drastically exponentially not linear which has other negative shooting effects) is why I don't opt for weatherby chamberings. Clear as mud right? Also, I'm knowledgeable enough to be dangerous and not an expert so someone may correct some of my ramblings, but I think I got the most of it.
     
  3. jareese

    jareese Active Member

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    With my 230's loaded at 3.7" OAL I'm .020 off the lands in my rifle.
     
  4. Bravo 4

    Bravo 4 Well-Known Member

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    You sure there was zero expansion...and liquified the lungs? Small hole in-liquified internals-small hole out? Sounds more like the bullets came apart, wreaked hell on the insides, and only a piece of it existed.
    I’ve shot animals that I’m sure the bullet didn’t expand as intended. Small hole in, small hole through lungs, small hole out...then they either ran a significant ways/time, or I had to put multiple rounds through them in short order before they did.
    On was a .300 WinMag almost at the muzzle! So I’m sure retained velocity wasn’t the issue.:D

    Disclaimer: not the same bullets as discussed in this thread.
     
    RockyMtnMT and jareese like this.
  5. 257Tony

    257Tony Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I've seen this many times with Bergers. A piece of jacket, or two, will exit and people think it didn't expand.
     
  6. MAF47

    MAF47 Active Member

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    As reply to Bravo4 and 257 Tony, on my experience I can tell that the exit hole of a bullet after fragmentation is normally larger than the bullet diameter. In the case quoted in my thread I just checked what happened inside the room, and did'nt find any trace of copper or lead. Consequently, the cause of the liquefied internals is to be definitely attributed to the hydroshock.
     
  7. MAF47

    MAF47 Active Member

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    I got some 2990 with comfortable pressure. COAL is approx 3.1".
     
  8. Bravo 4

    Bravo 4 Well-Known Member

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    I can see where you’re coming from, but do you think a FMJ bullet will cause such a permanent wound cavity as to liquify the internals of an animal the size of a deer? Will they impart such hydrostatic shock? My experience with such projectiles is that unless they yaw or tumble they do not create wounds near that catastrophic. If they hit bone and cause secondary projectiles, then that’s another matter.
     
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  9. MAF47

    MAF47 Active Member

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    Yes. If you consider the effect of the projectile in the middle of the mass of the internal organs, the shock wave will disintegrate those tissues mostly composed by water.
    Of course, in case of fragmentation this effect will be amplified, but the shock vawe is due basically to the bullet body. Don't you agree?
     
  10. jmcmath

    jmcmath Well-Known Member

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    I don’t agree, I’ve seen expanding bullets not even come close to “liquifying” a chest cavity on a deer much less a bullet that will not release an energy dump due to deformation.
     
  11. MAF47

    MAF47 Active Member

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    My statement doesn't mean that the consequence of the hydroshock gets an immediate death. I just pointed out the particular situation of no expansion with a minimum energy release.
     
  12. gillettehunter

    gillettehunter Well-Known Member

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    If a Berger doesn’t expand my first thought is what was impact velocity. Cases mentioned above that is not the issue. So next is did you use a drill or a piece of wire to check for a clogged tip? Have to check every one. A clogged tip will NOT EXPAND. Some boxes I’ve checked have over 20% that need drilled out. It has been discussed and mentioned in multiple threads on here. Don’t check and you’ll eventually get one that doesn’t expand.
    Bruce
     
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  13. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    You can have a Remington mag box fit to it and get a longer coal, it's the same as fitting a wyatts mag box to a Rem.
     
    kcebcj likes this.