I somewhat get that people don't want too lug around an excessively long hunting rifle with a suppressor attached. Either you mortar at long range, use lighter weight bullets for higher velocity or use a long action and don't get the full use of that cartridge potential? A 4" suppressor doesn't equal to 4 extra inches of barrel length. Most of you know what you are getting into before you get where you're going and therefore you carry what works for you. A short mag barrel length from 18-22" + a suppressor to me is a great option. Having a long mag with a barrel length from 22" (less than a 30cal) - 26" for a 30cal and up to get the best performance out of that cartridge can get a bit long with a 4"+ suppressor. For a 308win a 180gr is as heavy as I go even with a 26" barrel. For my other 30cal (300wm) 210-215 on my 24 & 26" barrels and the 30" I'll use up to 240gr. There are just preferences due to minimum velocity of 2,700 and long or extended range.
20” 30 caliber short mag, 300SAUM, WSM or Sherman Short
- Thread starter Mike D Texas
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I do not want to put any negativity towards a fellow Texan on a rifle build of any kind. But I think you are gonna have a hard time getting 3k out of a 20" barrel unless you are ok with shooting 175ish grain pills. But at that point you might be better going 7mm and get your BC back up. It's going to be even harder to do with a short action reciver. It's going to be even harder in a 30cal. Maybe the Sherman mega type case which is an improved wsm amalgamation that needs the extra medium length action could do it but I'd still run that in a long action.
Secondly I've never understood the need/want/point of suppressing a supersonic cartridge and hindering said cartridges performance by cutting the barrel down so that i can run a suppressor in a comfortable package. But thats me. I'm not against suppressors and I own a few. One is on a 5.56 that is still loud and one is on a single shot 300blk that sounds like a pellet gun and the other 2 got lost in a boating accident. A hunting buddy of mine runs a 18" 300wm supressed with the cheapest factory ammo he can find for hogs in East Texas. He basically has a 95% power 30-06 in a 18" barrel and 6" suppressor.
I drive a 1 ton truck because I need a 1 ton truck. I'm not going to put half ton springs under it so that it rides better and leave the 1 ton emblems on the fenders lol.
If you want a 30cal short magnum that will shoot 200gr bullets at 3k you are gonna either be running hot or running a +22" barrel. Personally I don't run hot loads because of all this Mars dust out west. Had a friend get his bolt knocked open on a dewy morning walking through a mesquite thicket. The round in the chamber ejected and the next round from the magazine had part of a mesquite leaf stuck to the shoulder of the case.....needless to say it was difficult to get that fired round out of the chamber at camp.
I'm curious to see what you come up with and good luck!
Secondly I've never understood the need/want/point of suppressing a supersonic cartridge and hindering said cartridges performance by cutting the barrel down so that i can run a suppressor in a comfortable package. But thats me. I'm not against suppressors and I own a few. One is on a 5.56 that is still loud and one is on a single shot 300blk that sounds like a pellet gun and the other 2 got lost in a boating accident. A hunting buddy of mine runs a 18" 300wm supressed with the cheapest factory ammo he can find for hogs in East Texas. He basically has a 95% power 30-06 in a 18" barrel and 6" suppressor.
I drive a 1 ton truck because I need a 1 ton truck. I'm not going to put half ton springs under it so that it rides better and leave the 1 ton emblems on the fenders lol.
If you want a 30cal short magnum that will shoot 200gr bullets at 3k you are gonna either be running hot or running a +22" barrel. Personally I don't run hot loads because of all this Mars dust out west. Had a friend get his bolt knocked open on a dewy morning walking through a mesquite thicket. The round in the chamber ejected and the next round from the magazine had part of a mesquite leaf stuck to the shoulder of the case.....needless to say it was difficult to get that fired round out of the chamber at camp.
I'm curious to see what you come up with and good luck!
NZTahr
Well-Known Member
The suppressor on my 20" 300SAUM is 3.75" forward of the muzzle and 5" back over the barrel. It weighs 330 grams.
www.dpt.co.nz
It makes a light, short and portable rifle. I claim back the lost velocity from the barrel chop by dropping a bullet weight (to 168 NBT) and using high energy and slightly faster burning powders (R17 or N550).
For shots on game up to Elk size animals out to my max of 500 yards there is nothing not to like.
Magnum centerfire over barrel modular, 300win mag Mk2 - DPT Machinists
Magnum centerfire over barrel modular 300win mag Mk2
It makes a light, short and portable rifle. I claim back the lost velocity from the barrel chop by dropping a bullet weight (to 168 NBT) and using high energy and slightly faster burning powders (R17 or N550).
For shots on game up to Elk size animals out to my max of 500 yards there is nothing not to like.
For the naysayers, I modified a SAUM case in Quickdesign, and attached is hypotheticals from Quickload with the modified case. While it's a very narrow window, it looks like RL26 will reach my goal speed under max pressure but with a compressed load (5%). I won't be unhappy if it doesn't shoot 3000, but that seems to be the magic point where bang flops are almost guaranteed from my experience.
Now I need 3-5 pieces of 300SAUM brass if anyone has some they could spare.
Now I need 3-5 pieces of 300SAUM brass if anyone has some they could spare.
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What are you doing to improve it? Putting in wsm numbers? 
Looks like it'll do it…I like the RL16 data.
Looks like it'll do it…I like the RL16 data.
LOL. Adjusting shoulder angle, removing most of the taper. RL16 looks good too but at higher pressure.What are you doing to improve it? Putting in wsm numbers?
Looks like it'll do it…I like the RL16 data.
Idaho Trecker
Well-Known Member
If you're modifying a saum why not just do the Sherman max? It's a full length saum that has brass and dies and already modified. I have had a 300 max and two 300ss as well as loaded for my friends 300 max.
My 28" 300 ss ran the 208 eldm at 2930 fps with rl 26 whereas my 22.75" runs same bullet and powder at 2825 fps.
My 300 max was 21" barrel and ran 208 eldm with rl 26 at 2890 fps. My friends max is a 22" and with 100v and 208 eldm runs 2815 fps.
As you've already seen you will want a xm or long action to run even a full length saum with the bullets properly seated in the neck. At that point, if you're set on short action, you are better with a SS. If you go with long action then you open more doors. The wsm or Sherman mega will fit the long action and get you a little more speed for more powder burned and more recoil. Your purpose for the build and weight goals will help you decide what way to go.
I've loaded for two different 300wsm and they are great cartridges. If I was going to shoot a factory 30 cal it would be a wsm. One wsm I'm loading with rl 16 which doesn't get top speed but drives tacks at 2815 fps with 208 eldm and a 24 or 26" barrel. The other is a 24" and shoots the 212 eldx with rl26 just under 2900 I believe.
To reach your fps goals you will have to go with a bigger cartridge and/or lighter bullet. I did very little testing with my 22.75" 300ss and a 180 Berger but it shoots around the 2930 fps mark. All numbers I referenced were loaded I use and consider safe in my guns and where I'll get good life out of my brass. I've maxed out WAY higher.
My 28" 300 ss ran the 208 eldm at 2930 fps with rl 26 whereas my 22.75" runs same bullet and powder at 2825 fps.
My 300 max was 21" barrel and ran 208 eldm with rl 26 at 2890 fps. My friends max is a 22" and with 100v and 208 eldm runs 2815 fps.
As you've already seen you will want a xm or long action to run even a full length saum with the bullets properly seated in the neck. At that point, if you're set on short action, you are better with a SS. If you go with long action then you open more doors. The wsm or Sherman mega will fit the long action and get you a little more speed for more powder burned and more recoil. Your purpose for the build and weight goals will help you decide what way to go.
I've loaded for two different 300wsm and they are great cartridges. If I was going to shoot a factory 30 cal it would be a wsm. One wsm I'm loading with rl 16 which doesn't get top speed but drives tacks at 2815 fps with 208 eldm and a 24 or 26" barrel. The other is a 24" and shoots the 212 eldx with rl26 just under 2900 I believe.
To reach your fps goals you will have to go with a bigger cartridge and/or lighter bullet. I did very little testing with my 22.75" 300ss and a 180 Berger but it shoots around the 2930 fps mark. All numbers I referenced were loaded I use and consider safe in my guns and where I'll get good life out of my brass. I've maxed out WAY higher.
muleystalker
Well-Known Member
ADG makes SAUM Brass, that's who makes the SHERMAN BRASS.Playing around in Quickdesign and Quickload it looks like the WSM has a ~125fps advantage over the SAUM. But it would have to be run in a medium length or long action to seat the bullet above the neck/shoulder junction. I don't know if I want to jump into the pool of limited receiver, bottom metal, stock options and I'm finding very few stocks that are inletted for a medium action.
If I did the SAUM, I *should* be able to use the same bushing dies for the 6.5 SAUM and 300 SAUM provided I make the improved case dimensions the same (except the bore diameter of course). I can also set the 178 ELDX @ 2.965" and use either a 3" internal box or the Hawkins Hunter DBM.
All advantages lean toward the SAUM for me but I like speed as long as it's accurate and the WSM does have the advantage of ADG brass.
Still pondering……..
I see 6.5 SAUM and 7SAUM but not 300. The dimensions are slightly different on 300 SAUM brass. I see that Sherman brass I'd default as 7mm and has to be prepped for other calibers.
Nice rifle JP!
Wild Monkey
Well-Known Member
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Nice.
BAKPAKR
Well-Known Member
That is very nice! Which HCA contour is that?
Summit, straight taper.
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