2 shots touching with one flyer possible answer

L.Sherm

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I dont run mag boxs either that the tip is close to the front, not in my hunting rifles I do in my 17 and 20 cals.
I could see a potential problem in higher recoil rifles with the tip being close to the front of mag box
 

Jeremy R Snyder

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I normally don't shoot 3 shot groups anymore. IMO it doesn't give enough "hands on" data. Why don't you see what happens with 5 shot groups. That will give you a better idea of the rifle's performance. Better yet, shoot 5 shots, let the barrel cool all the way down then shoot 5 more at the same target. That amounts to a 10 shot group.
Many years ago when I lived in FL I had visited a public range you had to present your rifle to the range master and then he assigned you a bench. He seemed to be a real snob and smirked when I uncased a butt ugly H&R Handi Rifle in .223. And it WAS really ugly. The stock wood was extra proud and the barrel looked like it was finished with a mill bastard file! After setting up a target at 100 yards after the first cease fire I proceeded to fire about 15 rounds down range before the next cease fire. As he was walking down checking all the rifles to be sure they were safe he asked how the rifle shot. I told him to check for himself. There was a ragged hole in the target about the size of a dime. He asked how many shots were in that group. I said oh, about 15 or so. He was shocked
I do shoot 5 shot groups, problem is the mag only holds 3 so I shoot 3, load 2 more and shoot 2 more which is why the observation is out of 3 shots. Out of 10 shots in a row there may be a few outside the normal bug hole. Might get 7-8 into 1/4- 1/2 and 2-3 about 1/2” away from those out of the 10. I have no doubts about this gun or the load I am using whatsoever. If I hand feed one at a time it is a 1/4 to 1/2 moa all day combo. The minute you add the mag and the cbto gets thrown out of whack it turns into a 1 moa combo.
 
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Jeremy R Snyder

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I can guarantee you if O.P is getting .046 variances in seating depth i dont care how many shot groups he shoots.
If you have ever shot .010 difference loads atleast 500 you'll see what I mean, that being said ive never had a problem with as .002 nk tension moving
This is 100 percent where I was at. Not sure if it’s because it’s a .17 cal and regardless of neck tension it takes next to nothing to bump the projectile deeper into the case… I do notice with .002 tension, on the press you can not feel any tension while seating. I’m assuming because of the surface area being so small maybe a tighter neck tension could correct the bump issue while chambering a round?
 

Jeremy R Snyder

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I dont run mag boxs either that the tip is close to the front, not in my hunting rifles I do in my 17 and 20 cals.
I could see a potential problem in higher recoil rifles with the tip being close to the front of mag
I haven’t until just now. It’s nice to know others have had similar issues because this really makes you start to question yourself quite a bit lol!! Especially when you have checked and rechecked 10 times easily. Great info and I am going to give it a go.
 

johnnyk

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Can't you simply turn down your bullet seating die 1/8 to 1/4 turn and put a roll crimp on your case?
I'm not sure it works that way with rifle dies. I always thought you'd have to go with another separate crimping die, like the Lee. I know with pistol seating dies you can roll crimp your rounds.

I am going to try this loaded magazine theory in my Savage 6mmBR Norma. Makes sense to me that it can cause upwards pressure on the bolt; less rounds, less pressure.
 

johnnyk

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Just did a test with just my 6BR magazine and loaded rounds using my Chatillon Digital Force Meter (DFM). I measured how much force it requires to push the top cartridge down so that the tip of the meter just touches the lip of the mag.
Testing was 5 tries w/3 cartridges spanning from 9.80lb to 10.15lb (avg: 9.90lb). 2 cartridges spanned 4.75lb to 5.05lb (avg: 4.90lb), with 1 cartridge spanning 3.15lb to 3.50lb (avg: 3.30lb).
Informal testing but definitely something I never thought of.
Magpressure.jpg
 

Philward

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Can't you simply turn down your bullet seating die 1/8 to 1/4 turn and put a roll crimp on your case?
Kind of a PIA in my experience. trying to accomplish this and I just make a mess trying to get bullet seating depth and the crimp to happen at the correct time. So it's seat bullets then back off the seating stem, screw die in a little to get the crimp amount you want then run loaded rounds through die to crimp. Separate crimp die would be better and certainly do a neater job.
 

Clem Bronkoski

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Kind of a PIA in my experience. trying to accomplish this and I just make a mess trying to get bullet seating depth and the crimp to happen at the correct time. So it's seat bullets then back off the seating stem, screw die in a little to get the crimp amount you want then run loaded rounds through die to crimp. Separate crimp die would be better and certainly do a neater job.
No that's not how you do it. You set your die as such (if it has a roll crimp built into it). Most do these days. 1. screw the die down until it touches the case mouth. 2. screw down the bullet seating screw to the desired bullet depth then lower the ram. 3. Back off the seating screw and turn the die down about 1/8th turn and run the case back into the die. This will crimp the case mouth onto the bullet. 4. With the ram all the way up screw down the seating screw until it touches the bullet. 5. lock everything down.
Now all you have to do is put a case in the shell holder, put a bullet on top and run it into the die. The cartridge will come out with bullet at the proper depth and the case mouth crimped.
 
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Jeremy R Snyder

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2856F0FF-F4EA-4336-AD3F-8C7E0A25A085.jpeg
Well got to the range today and took some pics so you guys can see exactly what I mean. I did 2 shots single fed, 2 shots mag fed side by side. The wider of the 2 is the mag fed. To show how consistently it does it, I then took 2- 3 shot groups mag fed and you can see the pattern clearly, always 2 touching and 1 off. Again not over an inch ever but if I shoot single fed for 5 rounds it’s a 1/4-1/2 moa every time. Anyways I hope this helps others, got some really really good feedback from everyone so I thank you all!
 

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