Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
a 45 runs 5 to 10 grains of powder in many loadings... a double would be hard to notice...
1911 Kaboom! Diagnosis help? (and always wear eye pro!).
- Thread starter entoptics
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FrogFire7
Well-Known Member
You absolutely would not notice it. In a mixed bag of brass, you could probably have that much variation in just brass weight from manufacturer to manufacturer.
entoptics
Well-Known Member
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So...Having done quite a bit of research, it appears the 1911 is virtually incapable of "firing out of battery" in the deadly explosion sort of manner. In the true technical sense, it will fire about a 10th of an inch out, though the round would be all but completely seated, and the locking lugs engaged. When it's way out (i.e. unlocked), the hammer can't hit the pin, as the bottom of the back of the slide (firing pin stop?) is sitting such that the hammer hits it before it could reach the firing pin.
I believe the jury finds the defendant, Richard Reload, guilty as charged. See what I did there...Charged...Get it...?
One thing I hadn't noticed about this 1911, and perhaps all of them, is the case support isn't exactly awe inspiring. There's about 1/10-1/16 of an inch of case exposed, which is more than double what I see on my G23 40S&W Glock (the supposed poster child for unsupported case head). My M&P shield has almost complete case support.
I think the autopsy suggests that the reload was over pressured (understatement), and failed at the web were the case was completely unsupported. Resulting in the explosive results I experienced.
On the bright side, the gun functioned as designed, and the steel frame contained most of the carnage without much incident. I am a little confused how the shrapnel escaped, as the gun was jammed closed, only 1/8 of an inch out of battery. Perhaps it was just debris or crud being blasted out of the rear of the slide. I have to admit I don't keep my guns sparkly clean, so some carbon or dust buildup could have been ejected. The chip on my glasses is smaller than a grain of salt, so perhaps that's plausible. High velocity, but low mass.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I'll be scrapping all the miscellaneous rounds I found. I'll probably pull them, to rescue the exceedingly rare LP primers, so I'll keep an eye out for anymore that seem to have an excessive charge. As mentioned, I've shot thousands of rounds of 45 made by myself and my 2nd cousin, and 10X that many other pistol reloads, and this is the first Kaboom! I've ever had in anything. Chalking it up to a very low probability freak incident.
Freak or not, everyone make sure to keep those peepers protected!
I believe the jury finds the defendant, Richard Reload, guilty as charged. See what I did there...Charged...Get it...?
One thing I hadn't noticed about this 1911, and perhaps all of them, is the case support isn't exactly awe inspiring. There's about 1/10-1/16 of an inch of case exposed, which is more than double what I see on my G23 40S&W Glock (the supposed poster child for unsupported case head). My M&P shield has almost complete case support.
I think the autopsy suggests that the reload was over pressured (understatement), and failed at the web were the case was completely unsupported. Resulting in the explosive results I experienced.
On the bright side, the gun functioned as designed, and the steel frame contained most of the carnage without much incident. I am a little confused how the shrapnel escaped, as the gun was jammed closed, only 1/8 of an inch out of battery. Perhaps it was just debris or crud being blasted out of the rear of the slide. I have to admit I don't keep my guns sparkly clean, so some carbon or dust buildup could have been ejected. The chip on my glasses is smaller than a grain of salt, so perhaps that's plausible. High velocity, but low mass.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I'll be scrapping all the miscellaneous rounds I found. I'll probably pull them, to rescue the exceedingly rare LP primers, so I'll keep an eye out for anymore that seem to have an excessive charge. As mentioned, I've shot thousands of rounds of 45 made by myself and my 2nd cousin, and 10X that many other pistol reloads, and this is the first Kaboom! I've ever had in anything. Chalking it up to a very low probability freak incident.
Freak or not, everyone make sure to keep those peepers protected!
SDPlinker
Well-Known Member
Geez! Clean and lube that thing before you show it!
Wrenches
Well-Known Member
I have seen this kind of damage before. People bring this stuff into my shop over the years. Not all are 1911 or clones, happens with Glocks as well. It is almost always an extreme overload. Squib loads in 1911's I have inspected split the barrel right behind the stuck bullet. The one is suspect was an out of battery fire sent the slide to the rear and it stayed there, it was a foreign made 1911 clone. Be careful loading pistol rounds!
Mackinaw BOB
Well-Known Member
This could very easily been a double charge of powder using a powder along the lines of say titegroup. I was loading 40 s&w the other day with 4.3 grains of titegroup. Case will hold two or maybe even 3 times that amount and still seat boolit just fine.
nakneker
Well-Known Member
First off I'm glad your ok! It's hard to share an incident that invites criticism no matter how constructive that criticism may or may not be. You certainly don't know what happened but I'd wager those old forgotten about reloads are the problem. I stopped shooting others peoples reloads a lomg time ago when an Uncle loaded some 22-250 rounds and gave me a box. The third round out of the box locked up the action on my Remington 788 and the recoil and boom from that round was no bueno, never shot someone else's reloads again. Kudos for having eye protection too, wise man.
epags
Well-Known Member
Agree with over charging being the problem.
But now you should look at one possible issue caused by the kaboom.
I have had two Colt 1911 series 70 and the issue with that series was: Colt made some with receivers that had 'soft' steel. The result was that the face (through which the firing pin extends) was soft enough that after many firings (of target loads) the firing pin hole became compressed and locked the firing pin in an extended position. Inspect and assure yourself that the firing pin moves freely.
In my case the distortion resulted from many firings, not a catastrophic event. Boy is that fun when a pistol became 'automatic' bang, cycle, bang, cycle, bang.
Oh yes, Colt said that they (new owners) no longer warrantied the Model 70 series but were willing to drill and install a hardened insert for a fee. Which I took them up on.
- over pressure! It was chambered just like your photos.
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robert6715
Well-Known Member
Why dont you go ask the nutter what happened?
freddiej
Well-Known Member
Entoptics,
So much material so little time.
The trashy ammo is to blame. double charged case will blow up just like your pic. I am going to accuse Unique or Bullseye on this one. prior experience is to blame for this judgement.
now as for your complaint of the unsupported case, the case is thickest that last 1/10" before the extraction groove. you have what looks to be a unmolested/untouched barrel. then comparing it to a G-23 barrel/chamber. I suggest you take a hard look at the bottom of the chamber on that gun. you will find the case has nearly 1/16" clearance on the bottom of the chamber(AKA unsupported case) by design. then the S&W, that is maybe a little better than the Glock but not much. these two guns other than the 1911 you refer to have larger, wider chambers than the 1911 by design and by design have laterally unsupported chambers for reliability. I've seen in my business/shop many more blown up Glocks and S&W's over 1911 for the very reason your 1911 blew up. yesterday (March 5th 2021) I have a Glock 10MM come in with a detonated case in it. the case looked worse than yours. Case head was gone, rest of the case had to be reamed out of the chamber due to it being melted to the chamber walls. The plastic frame was cracked to oblivion. all this was due to someone double charging a cartridge (11.4 grains of Bullseye). it does not matter what the gun is, it will fail in some way to damage the shooter the least. that is how the 1911 was designed in 1910, that is how the Glock was designed along with most all handguns. the glock was designed to blow out the bottom of the chamber as was the S&W. the weak points of all plastic framed guns is the underside of the barrels so they do not blow up and out of the ejection port. hence containing the explosion inside the gun.
your observation of the chamber designs needs to be a little upgraded to include the shape of the chamber in cross section. most all plastic framed guns have an egg shaped chamber. that is for the most part unsupported without looking like it. Have you ever heard of the "Glock buldge"? if not look it up. it's on every case fired from a standard glock barrel. Lee makes what they call a "Glock case bulge buster" to correct that bulge from the glock chamber so they can be reloaded and fired in other chambers. the glock chamber also makes a weakspot in the case such that the case can never be fored in another Glock ever again. it might seem I am downing Glock, I am not. I am giving just the information you need to know to understand there is weaknesses in every gun design out there for every shooter's safety.
Your 1911 contained the explosion the way it was designed to.
Your Glock would do it in other ways
Your S&W would do it in similar ways to your Glock
My FN will do it in a similar way to the Glock as well
My 1911's will contain the failure in the same way yours did.
You can get fully, truly fully supported chambered 1911 barrels. they come in many 9MMs, Super 38, 40 S&W, 10MM, 45 ACP, 45 Super, 460 Rolland. If you want to. Go to a Gunsmith and have one installed.
MS660Magnum
Active Member
My Kimber did this exact thing to me a few years ago. Blew the magazine guts out the grip and everything. The only difference was that in my case my sunglasses were safely on my forehead; I've since been much better about eye pro.
