169 Hammer vs 180 VLD vs 195 EOL. Proven 7mm Loads.

Huntnful

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If you're limiting range due to wind and energy using hammer bullets vs Berger that's not exactly a good selling point for a very expensive bullet. That said, if Hammers are available that's a performance factor of its own.
I’d only limit the range for heavy wind, not energy. I’d shoot at them as far they’d ethically expand. They’ll also give exits and the Berger’s don’t. That’s what I’m looking forward to seeing, and their killing performance in general. This a test for me. I’m just stating that their performance is actually quite good given the added velocities.
 

Muskrat Outdoors

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Okay, so I'm constantly working on different bullets and developing different loads in my 28 nosler. Mostly just for fun, but also to find my personal favorite. I developed a 169 Hammer Load a while back. It was a smoker and a tack driver. I have since been tinkering with the 180 Bergers VLD's. And already had a load for the 195's as well. The bergers kill, no doubt about it! But the inconsistencies in the "hollow points" drive me freaking nuts, and I also think they randomly effect down range accuracy and BC when you get one that is quite distorted. I know you can uniform them, BUT WHY aren't they just uniform to begin with lol. Anyways, I decided to put all the data side by side, with proven velocities and trued BC's (in my personal scenario and rifle). I'm going full send on the hammers for this season and just ordered another 150 from Steve at Hammer.

The Hammer wins in velocity out to 600 yards. It wins in elevation out to 1100. And it's CONSISTENT. The Berger's do take over the retained energy fairly early in the fight, if that's a huge concern of yours. The inconsistencies of the bergers plays hard on my OCD lol. I killed 4 bucks, a bull elk and a caribou with the bergers last year. So i'm definitely partial to their killing abilities, but these hammers are worth a freaking shot. I've killed 4 coyotes with them so far, from 30-500 yards. 3 DRT, the close one ran about 50 yards. All got great expansion on the small targets, so I'm confident in them now. Here's the data.......
View attachment 290002
Big holes in the coyotes? You say they expanded, but how bad did it blow them up?
 

Huntnful

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Big holes in the coyotes? You say they expanded, but how bad did it blow them up?
I’d say the exits were about 1-2” in diameter. I didn’t go get one of the coyotes. The closest shot one. But the ones at 200, 350 & 500 yards all had good sized exits.
This is actually one of the performance attributes why I used them for LRH. All of its energy is dumped into the game and reduces/eliminates injuring another game due to pass through.
Yeah, they performed great at long range. I like the Berger’s 100%. Don’t get me wrong. The grenade the internals on game. Just going down a rabbit hole here, and the only way to know, is to prove things for myself 🤙🏼🤙🏼
 

esshup

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I’d only limit the range for heavy wind, not energy. I’d shoot at them as far they’d ethically expand. They’ll also give exits and the Berger’s don’t. That’s what I’m looking forward to seeing, and their killing performance in general. This a test for me. I’m just stating that their performance is actually quite good given the added velocities.
My cow elk at 708 yds had a silver dollar sized exit with the 180g Berger. DRT. Coyote at 867 yds was a mess. Most of the insides were outside.

I am afraid to shoot any game animals with them out of the 7mm AM at less than 300 yds. Same with the 195's, worried that they will act more like a varmint bullet than a big game bullet. Had a bad (what I consider bad) experience with a 115 NBT @ 80 yds in a .257 Wby Mag. Dead deer, but no blood trail for the first 80 yds. No exit. Good thing there was snow, plus I watched it fall over. Switched to Barnes in that since then.
 

Huntnful

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My cow elk at 708 yds had a silver dollar sized exit with the 180g Berger. DRT. Coyote at 867 yds was a mess. Most of the insides were outside.

I am afraid to shoot any game animals with them out of the 7mm AM at less than 300 yds. Same with the 195's, worried that they will act more like a varmint bullet than a big game bullet. Had a bad (what I consider bad) experience with a 115 NBT @ 80 yds in a .257 Wby Mag. Dead deer, but no blood trail for the first 80 yds. No exit. Good thing there was snow, plus I watched it fall over. Switched to Barnes in that since then.
I killed 4 bucks, a caribou and a bull elk at ranges from 30 yards to 630 yards. No exits, with either the 180 VLDs or the 195’s. Now I couldn’t care less though. No animals made it more than 30 yards. I just thought it would be a nice addition with the hammers, along with the shrapnel going wildly into the cavity. That’s what I love about the Berger’s. Serious and broad internal damage. I won’t shoot a bullet that doesn’t somewhat fragment. I love that style of terminal performance for sure!
 

esshup

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I killed 4 bucks, a caribou and a bull elk at ranges from 30 yards to 630 yards. No exits, with either the 180 VLDs or the 195’s. Now I couldn’t care less though. No animals made it more than 30 yards. I just thought it would be a nice addition with the hammers, along with the shrapnel going wildly into the cavity. That’s what I love about the Berger’s. Serious and broad internal damage. I won’t shoot a bullet that doesn’t somewhat fragment. I love that style of terminal performance for sure!
I agree with you but I also like to have 2 holes in the animal. Depending on bullet entry, there may not be a blood trail with 1 hole. The deer was downhill, so no blood out of the high entry hole. An exit would have made a red trail. Snow on the ground though, and no leaves on the trees so it was easy to watch until it dropped. No blood until the last 10 yds.

With my .243, I shoot the 85g Bergers. 3250 fps MV. @ 20 yds I shot a buck with it's head down facing me. I was about 8 feet higher than the buck. Bullet entered the base of the neck, and I thought I will finally get to see what a bullet looks like. Nope, bullet exited the scrotum. Inside was a mess and it just dropped when hit. That's why I love to use monolithic constructed bullets if I don't know how close the animal will be. If I'm hunting wide open areas, that isn't a concern.
 

FEENIX

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Yeah, they performed great at long range. I like the Berger’s 100%. Don’t get me wrong. The grenade the internals on game. Just going down a rabbit hole here, and the only way to know, is to prove things for myself 🤙🏼🤙🏼
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That's fine, I am simply noting that they do not need a pass-through to be effective as 100% of the KE is absorbed by the game.
 

Huntnful

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The 143 Hammer Hunters didn’t go near as fast as I was hoping. With was with 91gr. N570 (max case capacity). I’m pretty positive I have a slow batch of powder. But it’s a consistent batch, so I’m going to run it. Bullets shot pretty well, but I think I’ll stick with the 169’s at 3300fps.
3DD140EF-6AFA-4263-B8F6-5F3F4636A048.png
 

Huntnful

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I would think N570 may a little too slow for a 143 grainer. Just not heavy enough to build up steam.
I agree. I thought I'd be able to do it since it's been proven already. But I'm not done with them yet haha. Getting some Retumbo & N560/N565 to tinker with. I know I can get them ripping.
 
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