169 Hammer vs 180 VLD vs 195 EOL. Proven 7mm Loads.

Longrangers

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May 31, 2017
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Okay, so I'm constantly working on different bullets and developing different loads in my 28 nosler. Mostly just for fun, but also to find my personal favorite. I developed a 169 Hammer Load a while back. It was a smoker and a tack driver. I have since been tinkering with the 180 Bergers VLD's. And already had a load for the 195's as well. The bergers kill, no doubt about it! But the inconsistencies in the "hollow points" drive me freaking nuts, and I also think they randomly effect down range accuracy and BC when you get one that is quite distorted. I know you can uniform them, BUT WHY aren't they just uniform to begin with lol. Anyways, I decided to put all the data side by side, with proven velocities and trued BC's (in my personal scenario and rifle). I'm going full send on the hammers for this season and just ordered another 150 from Steve at Hammer.

The Hammer wins in velocity out to 600 yards. It wins in elevation out to 1100. And it's CONSISTENT. The Berger's do take over the retained energy fairly early in the fight, if that's a huge concern of yours. The inconsistencies of the bergers plays hard on my OCD lol. I killed 4 bucks, a bull elk and a caribou with the bergers last year. So i'm definitely partial to their killing abilities, but these hammers are worth a freaking shot. I've killed 4 coyotes with them so far, from 30-500 yards. 3 DRT, the close one ran about 50 yards. All got great expansion on the small targets, so I'm confident in them now. Here's the data.......
View attachment 290002
Have tried different combinations with the Berger 195? I will inform you that I am running it much faster than you with ADG brass and powder and shoots very well. I will let you with this I checked mine at a 1000 yd range elevation was 1000 feet above sea level. 16 MOA to hit x ring. I am not going to disclose my load.
 

DeadmansPoint

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I tried the 143 HH pushing them at 3,650 at max pressure with 91gr N570 in Nosler brass seated at the second gas ring. I just couldn't get them to group consistently. My chamber was cut for the Berger 180-195s though. Keep us posted.
 

Taylorbok

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I'd like to see what you can do with the 177 hammers, if you have the twist rate for them. You won't see any gain inside of 500 or even 1000 but out passed 1500 they should take over pretty quick. I know lots of people don't shoot that far so I understand if you don't care to pursue it.
 

Huntnful

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I tried the 143 HH pushing them at 3,650 at max pressure with 91gr N570 in Nosler brass seated at the second gas ring. I just couldn't get them to group consistently. My chamber was cut for the Berger 180-195s though. Keep us posted.
My chamber is also cut for the 195’s. It shoots the 169’s into a clover leaf, so I’ll definitely be curious how it’ll shoot the 143’s!
I'd like to see what you can do with the 177 hammers, if you have the twist rate for them. You won't see any gain inside of 500 or even 1000 but out passed 1500 they should take over pretty quick. I know lots of people don't shoot that far so I understand if you don't care to pursue it.
I tried the 177’s a while back. Got them to 3230 but they wouldn’t stabilize for my down here right at sea level. Major bummer, because they literally shot into 1 hole lol.
 

esshup

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Huntnful, how do you think they'd do (the different Hammer bullets) at a faster velocity? I'm running the 180g Bergers at 3350 fps and the 195's at roughly 3275 fps @ 780' elevation out of my gun. I was running the 175g Sierra Matchkings at 3495 fps, those were the accuracy node fps, I could push them faster but the accuracy wasn't there.
 

Huntnful

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Huntnful, how do you think they'd do (the different Hammer bullets) at a faster velocity? I'm running the 180g Bergers at 3350 fps and the 195's at roughly 3275 fps @ 780' elevation out of my gun. I was running the 175g Sierra Matchkings at 3495 fps, those were the accuracy node fps, I could push them faster but the accuracy wasn't there.
Well those velocities are pretty unreal lol. What is your gun and load setup? I don't think you can beat a 195 3275fps lol. But however you're getting it there, you can plan on gaining 2-300 fps more from the 177 or 169. Those were my experiences. If you were running the 175 match king at 3495, you could run the 177HH 3500+ for sure. They shoot FAST. Depending on your own personal preference, I'd test out either of them. But your velocities are crazy for the weight range haha.
 

esshup

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Well those velocities are pretty unreal lol. What is your gun and load setup? I don't think you can beat a 195 3275fps lol. But however you're getting it there, you can plan on gaining 2-300 fps more from the 177 or 169. Those were my experiences. If you were running the 175 match king at 3495, you could run the 177HH 3500+ for sure. They shoot FAST. Depending on your own personal preference, I'd test out either of them. But your velocities are crazy for the weight range haha.

My rifle is built by Kirby Allen of Allen Precision. It's chambered in 7mm Allen Magnum. A buddy has a 28 Nosler and it cannot shoot the velocity that the 7mm Allen Magnum is running without hitting signs of pressure first. I believe he's using RL-33 powder. I was using WC-872 powder but switched to RL-33 because of the temp sensitivity of the WC-872. I have since switched to RL-50 powder. With the RL-33 powder I was seeing signs of pressure before I hit the velocity that I was seeing with the WC-872 powder. Not so with the RL-50 powder.

Here's the build spec on the rifle:
Nesika Bay Model M Hunter
Lilja SS, fluted 1-9, 4 groove, 28" barrel, #6 contour
APS Slim Painkiller muzzle brake
Jewell trigger
Manner MCS-GAT stock
Defensive Edge adjustable cheekpiece
HS Precision Detachable Magazine system
Nesika 20 moa SS rail base
NightForce Ultralight rings
NightForce NXS NPR1 5.5-22x50mm with zero stop
Rail mounted ACI
Scope mounted scope level
Harris S-BRM 9”-13” Bipod with Swivel Lock w/Bipod Loc

The velocity with the 175g SMK's was with 111 grains of WC-872. The 180g Bergers were pushed with 108g of the same powder.
 
Last edited:

Huntnful

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My rifle is built by Kirby Allen of Allen Precision. It's chambered in 7mm Allen Magnum. A buddy has a 28 Nosler and it cannot shoot the velocity that the 7mm Allen Magnum is running without hitting signs of pressure first. I believe he's using RL-33 powder. I was using WC-872 powder but switched to RL-33 because of the temp sensitivity of the WC-872. I have since switched to RL-50 powder. With the RL-33 powder I was seeing signs of pressure before I hit the velocity that I was seeing with the WC-872 powder. Not so with the RL-50 powder.

Here's the build spec on the rifle:
Nesika Bay Model M Hunter
Lilja SS, fluted 1-9, 4 groove, 28" barrel, #6 contour
APS Slim Painkiller muzzle brake
Jewell trigger
Manner MCS-GAT stock
Defensive Edge adjustable cheekpiece
HS Precision Detachable Magazine system
Nesika 20 moa SS rail base
NightForce Ultralight rings
NightForce NXS NPR1 5.5-22x50mm with zero stop
Rail mounted ACI
Scope mounted scope level
Harris S-BRM 9”-13” Bipod with Swivel Lock w/Bipod Loc

The velocity with the 175g SMK's was with 111 grains of WC-872. The 180g Bergers were pushed with 108g of the same powder.
That’s awesome dude!! Sounds like you can get some wicked velocities with whatever bullet you choose! I’d at least test some hammers out and see what you think! Super accurate and don’t really hit pressures as fast as conventional bullets. I think you’d want to go with the 169 with your 1-9 twist. If it’s stabilizing the 195’s it should stabilize the 169. I’d imagine you could see velocities around 3600+ with that bullet.
 

Longrangers

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153
Well those velocities are pretty unreal lol. What is your gun and load setup? I don't think you can beat a 195 3275fps lol. But however you're getting it there, you can plan on gaining 2-300 fps more from the 177 or 169. Those were my experiences. If you were running the 175 match king at 3495, you could run the 177HH 3500+ for sure. They shoot FAST. Depending on your own personal preference, I'd test out either of them. But your velocities are crazy for the weight range haha.
I can say that I am running numbers very similar to him out of my 28 nosler with 195. I got my load from a person in Wyoming and I didn’t believe it until I started playing with it as well.
 

esshup

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N. Central Indiana
That’s awesome dude!! Sounds like you can get some wicked velocities with whatever bullet you choose! I’d at least test some hammers out and see what you think! Super accurate and don’t really hit pressures as fast as conventional bullets. I think you’d want to go with the 169 with your 1-9 twist. If it’s stabilizing the 195’s it should stabilize the 169. I’d imagine you could see velocities around 3600+ with that bullet.

Thanks. I can even stabilize the old 200g Wildcat bullets.
 

Longrangers

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Messages
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Huntnful, how do you think they'd do (the different Hammer bullets) at a faster velocity? I'm running the 180g Bergers at 3350 fps and the 195's at roughly 3275 fps @ 780' elevation out of my gun. I was running the 175g Sierra Matchkings at 3495 fps, those were the accuracy node fps, I could push them faster but the accuracy wasn't there.
How many minutes does it take you to 1000 with 195 Berger?
 
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