Curious if anyone has tried trimming the meplats on the 156 which might open the point just a hair and help with expansion.
144 bergers. Anyone using them?
- Thread starter BrentM
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What is the deal with people always complaining about having to shoot an animal multiple times with bullets clearly not marketed or intended to be used as a hunting bullet? There are specific bullet characteristics that matter when shooting animals ethically. Velocity at range, jacket construction and meplat are all important factors.
When I read this stuff, its reminds me of the guy who goes to the doctor and asks him why it hurts when he hits his knee with a hammer.
To the OP, what was your bullet velocity at 660 yards?
Sorry to rant, don't mean any disrespect to the OP or anyone else in the thread. It seems that just because we have all these great long range, high BC bullets now, we expect all of them to be elk medicine at 600+ yards.
When I read this stuff, its reminds me of the guy who goes to the doctor and asks him why it hurts when he hits his knee with a hammer.
To the OP, what was your bullet velocity at 660 yards?
Sorry to rant, don't mean any disrespect to the OP or anyone else in the thread. It seems that just because we have all these great long range, high BC bullets now, we expect all of them to be elk medicine at 600+ yards.
well mudmarine………………..I guess you do bring up some valid points!
BrentM
Well-Known Member
I tend to wonder what your experience is with long range bullets in general, like the history design and differences. If you are expert and have the actual thickness measurements please share those and how they correspond to terminal performance. I don't mind debates but in the end target bullets and hunting bullets are pretty much the same thing with very little differences unless you get into core bonding. If you believe a target bullet by berger and hunting bullet by berger are vastly different, lets here it. Yes, there are some differences but we both know the hunting bullet is supposed to be sporting a slightly thinner jacket to help in fragmentation, their intended design, and target is supposed to hold up a bit better to abuse.
My velocity at 660 is 2258 fps. Well beyond the normal expected 1800 fps, rule of thumb, and 600 to 800 fps faster than claimed hunting bullet expansion velocity. To further this, I shot that yote at 250 (2730 fps) behind the shoulder as one of the follow ups.
Moving the discussion to ELD. ELD is target bullet and so is the A tip. I've hammered a lot of predators so far this winter with the A tip and a couple deer this past season and they did a fantastic job and exceeded my expectations. I've killed a pile of predators with the 147 and had amazing results. Both fur friendly and yet devastating terminal performance. I have never had berger anything overly impress me with terminal performance but I still try. The 140 vld hunting has been a huge disappointment in general.
dennisinaz
Well-Known Member
More bad experiences this year. The 156 needs lots of velocity or possibly tips opened
While not the 144, my experiences with the Berger Hybrids have been as follows:
Berger Factory 105gr Hybrid 6mm Creedmoor ammo. I used this ammo all through 2020 for culling deer at night over soybeans on permit, for coyotes, and for hogs. I probably took at least 80 coyotes with this load, a number of deer and pigs. Longest coyote shot was 793 yards and the longest deer shot was 819 IIRC. For me, this bullet was a death hammer. It performed extremely well. I would say the average shot distance for both was between 400-500 yards. Most of the deer were DRT and few ran more than 100 yards. Most all the coyotes were dead within 20 yards from the POI. I shot a boar at over 500 yards and he just fell dead. No stinky leg, no thrashing. Just like you turned his switch off. He was sneaking along a creek bottom with a group of cattle. Actually standing right beside a cow when I dropped him.
Berger 130gr Hybrid loaded in FGMM, 65CM. Seemed to perform on par with the 105gr. Had very good results the few animals I killed with it. I would say if I had more of it to play with, it would be my go to load in the KAC.
Berger factory ammo, 65CM 140gr Hybrid. I will not use this on coyotes again. It penciled through and most ran much farther than I like, even with pretty solid hits. Several required anchor shots after the intial hit. I do not like that. If I can anchor the first coyote of a pair DRT with the first shot, 9 times out of 10, #2 will run about 150 yards, stop and look to see what happened, allowing me to shoot #2. If they don't do that they will do a 70-80 yard circle and come back to #1 to see what is up, allowing for a shot. If #1 bolts after being hit, screaming as it runs most of the time #2 will not stop until they are into the next county. It did do ok on hogs though.
I have a bunch of 109gr hybrids for the 6mm CM I plan on trying, but my gut says they will not do as well as the 105's.
While I do have a good many spots I hunt with some fairly long shots, upwards of 1200 yards at a couple, most of my hunting is at night. We rarely have winds at night over 5mph. So I usually just run the 6mm CM. If the odd hurricane or something rolls through giving us a bunch of wind at night I'll put the 300 NM barrel on
.
Berger Factory 105gr Hybrid 6mm Creedmoor ammo. I used this ammo all through 2020 for culling deer at night over soybeans on permit, for coyotes, and for hogs. I probably took at least 80 coyotes with this load, a number of deer and pigs. Longest coyote shot was 793 yards and the longest deer shot was 819 IIRC. For me, this bullet was a death hammer. It performed extremely well. I would say the average shot distance for both was between 400-500 yards. Most of the deer were DRT and few ran more than 100 yards. Most all the coyotes were dead within 20 yards from the POI. I shot a boar at over 500 yards and he just fell dead. No stinky leg, no thrashing. Just like you turned his switch off. He was sneaking along a creek bottom with a group of cattle. Actually standing right beside a cow when I dropped him.
Berger 130gr Hybrid loaded in FGMM, 65CM. Seemed to perform on par with the 105gr. Had very good results the few animals I killed with it. I would say if I had more of it to play with, it would be my go to load in the KAC.
Berger factory ammo, 65CM 140gr Hybrid. I will not use this on coyotes again. It penciled through and most ran much farther than I like, even with pretty solid hits. Several required anchor shots after the intial hit. I do not like that. If I can anchor the first coyote of a pair DRT with the first shot, 9 times out of 10, #2 will run about 150 yards, stop and look to see what happened, allowing me to shoot #2. If they don't do that they will do a 70-80 yard circle and come back to #1 to see what is up, allowing for a shot. If #1 bolts after being hit, screaming as it runs most of the time #2 will not stop until they are into the next county. It did do ok on hogs though.
I have a bunch of 109gr hybrids for the 6mm CM I plan on trying, but my gut says they will not do as well as the 105's.
While I do have a good many spots I hunt with some fairly long shots, upwards of 1200 yards at a couple, most of my hunting is at night. We rarely have winds at night over 5mph. So I usually just run the 6mm CM. If the odd hurricane or something rolls through giving us a bunch of wind at night I'll put the 300 NM barrel on
.
