12GA Rounds for Grizz?

[Pilsner]

Jesus these threads are always dumpster fires

This is for bear defense, yes?

We have 400,000 yr old spears, imagine in 400,000 years how many animals and humans have fallen to spears.

I'm still not going to recommend them, but let's talk 22s, because they are incredibly relevant here...

Slugs have wretched sectional densities, sectional density being a good predictor of straight line penetration, especially in solids.

That Brenneke carried about a 160 sectional density, it's worse than a 147gr 9mm.

And for the recoil... jesus there are so many better options it is absolutely ridiculous.

We're lucky that most bears will leave at our presence, most of those that don't will leave with a little convincing, most of those that still remain will leave with a little more forceful "ask", finding the bear that just has to kill you is a rare bit of luck.

If that should happen, statistical probability of deep straight-line penetration is your friend, in Africa they like .300+ sectional density for dangerous game.

You can get several Africa calibers and have similar recoil, 375 H&H wouldn't be a bad choice.

I went 458 lott.

Shotguns are generally recommended as they are ubiquitous and anything is better than nothing.

So if it's a shotgun or nothing, have at it, otherwise, save the shotgun for hunting them over bait, shooting a treed bear, coyotes, they can do alright on whitetail.

The first relevant, thoughtful answer Ive read yet... and I think Im on page 8 or 9 of this thread. Sheesh.
Looking online I see that even the Remington Copper solid sabot slugs only have an SD of .21!
Growing up in Indiana's ag region and basically culling deer for farmers Ive shot well over 50 whitetails with slugs of various brands and types. None of them impressed me with their penetration or lethality compared to a centerfire rifle with quality bullets.
If it was me Id find some over .4 caliber AR pistol with a brace, a red dot, a tac light, and a 10 round magazine
full of Buffalo Bore or Underwood bear defense rounds. Even a 45-70 lever gun with a red dot would be a much better option. On the other hand Im a deer and black bear guy and not a Grizz expert so take my advice with a grain or two of salt.

 

[Pilsner]

I don know the trigger design of the Ithica 37, but one of the things that made the Win. Model 12 so fast was the operators ability to continue to have the trigger pulled (not release between shots) and merely operate the slide. Every time the slide reached the end of the stroke…..the firing pin was release! The faster you manipulate the slide…..the faster you got off rounds! memtb

This should answer your questions about the Ithaca 37 and its ilk.
Enjoy!

 

[Pilsner]

No doubt the Brenneke slugs are a good choice!


Some valid points…..and "big" assumptions!

Namely the assumption that those making the decisions (guides, police officers) to carry shotguns for Bear defense are actually knowledgable in terminal ballistics and shotgun slug construction leaves me shaking my head…..and that they are carrying the better slugs available for the job at hand!

Many police officers from my past, and more than a couple of guides that I know are pretty clueless about firearms and terminal ballistic. I think that many simply see bigger as better! JMO memtb

And those people are using what they are ISSUED by their department or employer. Not to mention the fact that a used 870 or 500 can be purchased for $300 and takes about 7 seconds of training before giving them out to use. I have yet to see an agency or department that doesnt take the cheapest and quickest solution to a problem instead of the best solution to the problem.

 

[Pilsner]

If the world was mine, and I had Elon musk money I'd do a 6 month ad campaign in all the big cities about some made up lack of bio diversity causing cancer. Or linking brown bears to lgbtqis+ acceptance and diversity, because you know "science". Then I'd use my private jet to tranquilize all problem bears in rural Alaska and use my jet to drop them off in or near big civic centers. Start with central park, then the hills between San Jose and half moon bay. Then Seattle, Portland, Atlanta and maybe the Chicago suburbs. Call everyone that complained about bear attacks in Central Park a "bigot", and launch big carnivores back into the wild in cities first. Kinda the opposite of the wolves. Eventually some of the animals will work their way east and south and the good folks of Kentucky will know the joy of big bears tearing up your garbage cans.....


In all seriousness, the nature of where I live means I have three phone contacts in my current phone who have scars caused by bears. Two brown bears, and one black bear. Black bear nailed him off his bike while he was moving at a decent clip, he was so unaware of what caused the bike wreck it took him a second to realize it was a bear. It beat him up a bit and then took off, he'd inadvertently biked between a mama and cubs. Another was a fellow walking up a stream who jumped a sow on a cut, he had a rifle and bear spray but she closed the gap so quick he had time for neither. As he described it she bit him in the thigh and pitched him over her shoulder like a dog flings a chew toy and then her and her cubs disappeared in the alders. Other was rolled off a deer he'd shot on the south end of the island.

As a kid in the village I was a part of some bear self defense kills, none were movie esque type moments. In other instances you'd have to of been Bob Munden quick to have made a gun much use. All that to say, I'd take any gun even a 12 gsuge with buckshot over sticks, rocks and yelling.

I have always thought that wolves and grizzly reintroductions should take place according to which zip codes voted to reintroduce them. For instance Colorado wolves should be dropped off in Boulder and Denver since that is where the people voted to bring them back are from.

 

[alaska]

Yes I use original Breneke to zero the delta point and then just fire the expensive Breneke to verify. I only have 5 left.

 

[comfisherman]

Looks like both places are now 30$ and change making it more expensive than local 30-378 Weatherby. How a shotgun slug becomes more than premium oddball centerfire is beyond me, unless it's flinging gold tip Tungsten slugs... the bear better be actively eating me before 6 dollar a pop shells get used.

Switching up my bear protection strategy, gonna strip down to my boxers and carry a Roman candle. Tap into a power more capable than kinetic energy.... weird them out.

So if your somewhere around kodiak, or the peninsula between homer and king cove, and you see a 6 foot 4 bearded Norwegian guy running down the beach in threadbare boxers firing off Roman candles.... a weirded out bear isn't far behind.

 

[alaska]

I have always thought that wolves and grizzly reintroductions should take place according to which zip codes voted to reintroduce them. For instance Colorado wolves should be dropped off in Boulder and Denver since that is where the people voted to bring them back are from.

Wolf will decimate a moose herd and will take years for it to come back !
Shoot Shovel and Shutup
Here we shoot on sight always have a AR for wolves.

 

[alaska]

And those people are using what they are ISSUED by their department or employer. Not to mention the fact that a used 870 or 500 can be purchased for $300 and takes about 7 seconds of training before giving them out to use. I have yet to see an agency or department that doesnt take the cheapest and quickest solution to a problem instead of the best solution to the problem.

We had great training here in Alaska. Since most of my biggest threat was 4 legs we always had Breneke Orginal Slugs but also had the Federal Tactical Buckshot and Slugs that we trained on using slug select drills. We had buckshot qualifications as well as slug qualification. We had hazing training with rubber slugs also. Most of the time the bears would get around the facilities we would shoot them with a Rubber slug on the rump.
We had one nice black bear that came in and popped the windshield out better than dealer and was sitting in the pickup when the owner returned.
Very funny ! We never even consider buckshot on the job but we had it available. I had a lot encounters with bear here in Alaska. Retired now and bored !
Yes we had 870 Rem our training was more extensive function checks / assembly / slug select /disassembly/ loading and unloading / malfunction drills / cleaning / qualifications every year along with firearm training and evaluation every quarter on AR / Glock 22 / 870.

 

[alaska]

Hey guys, we have a long hunt in the heart of grizzly territory this year in Wyoming (archery)

We will have the call guy carry the short shotgun for defense in the timber.

Curious what rounds everyone uses or suggests would be the best? Slugs? Buck?

Thanks!

No Buckshot for Bear !
Breneke Original Slugs Only !

 

[comfisherman]

I'm guessing the hunt is over and done by a few months....

 

[memtb]

I'm guessing the hunt is over and done by a few months....

Still tracking that bear shot by a 10 mm! memtb

 

[Airedale56]

Did you hear about the High School boys attacked by a Grizzly? One was getting beat pretty good so the other joined the fray. He grabbed the bears ear and it turned on him. Both boys were wrestlers in high school. Finally the bear lost interest and left. The boys survived a fight with a grizzly. Wounded, yes. But alive.

Actually, former HS wrestlers.

College boys in Powell, WY.

 

[RidgeTop]

Mike Tyson on the Tucker show talked about his 2 400lb Tigers that used to sleep with him.

mike tyson tigers - Search

www.bing.com

 

[alaska]

Ok enough of funny jokes !
It's time to go feed the Polar bears !