100yds sub MOA 800yds a joke

[Kansaswoodguy]

Single digit SD's, Scope level, 100yd accuracy isn't an true reflection of distance performance. I have many 100yd loads that shot MOA or better at 100yds and where junk for long range. 100yd accuracy is a indicator only that a load has promise. I shoot very little at 100yds anymore as long as I'm hitting my 385yd steel target when load testing I just use it and a Magnetospeed. This gives me a much better indication on how a load will act at distance. Now when you get a load capable of 1000yd accuracy and you throw in wind things get a great deal more interesting. When your literally changing your point of aim from one shot to the next to get the bullets to go to the same place on the target do to changes in the wind, well you get the idea. This is something that comes with more trigger time at those ranges. First time at shooting distance is an eye opening experience for most shooters and becomes an itch that some of us can't ever get scratched.

 

[280remington]

I want to thank everyone for their imput. I'm sorry I have not replied sooner but I have been dealing with the death of my mother and then "Hurricane Harvey". I hope to get back to the range in the next few weeks to see if I can anything. Thanks again!

 

[mikea5232]

I don't know how much it makes a difference with your load. But your ES on the 3 shots were close to 20fps. Plug your velocities in at 3000 fps and 3020. See the drop differences at 800yrds and i bet that's not helping your group much either. But i will say shooting over 600yrds+ you need to be 100%repeatable in your form, your ES needs to be in the single digits, and mother nature needs to be on your side.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. My condolences to you and your family

 

[WiscGunner]

At 800 yards, wind, mirage and variations in velocity will really open up your groups. It has been my experience to be very difficult to keep the same MOA group size at longer distances that I have at 100 because of these compounding factors. That is why we want to limit the variables as much as possible such as higher BC bullets. You have have simply found the limits of effective accuracy for your selected combination.

 

[280remington]

Well, I'm beginning to believe the biggest issue it the part behind the butt plate.

 

[Capt RB]

Well, I'm beginning to believe the biggest issue it the part behind the butt plate.

I hate it when that part is acting up. Try feeding it better input at the range and at the table

 

[280remington]

Yeah, me too. I'm taking it to Colorado next month. After that, hope I can input some elk steak data.

 

[ctw]

I am sorry to hear of the loss of your mother as well. I had the same problem going to longer yardages as you at first. I don't think anything is extremly off with your rifle load combination. You've heard the old adage baby steps first before you can run;well the same thing applies with shooting longer yardages. You've already mastered 400 yd's and have gained your confidence on out to there. Now master the next step at 500 yd's.,then 600,700,and800yd's. Just going from 400 to 500 will create a challenge; master that gain your confidence and then move to the next yardage. Dry Fire inbetween group sessions and while your rifle cools get comfortable with your mechanics,pay attention to your breathing,trigger technique, watch your crosshair movement on your target. learn to control all these, and see if that helps. CTW

 

[TK50]

280remington,
If you want to see if you are the culprit have someone you know who has experience in shooting at longer ranges shoot your rifle and setup to see how well they can do with it. If you don't see any change then you know it is in your load and you will need to work on that.

 

[280remington]

Thank you. I feel sure most of the problem is operator error. I've never been one of the "It can't be me..." crowd. I do know that I have bad days at the range when I can't shoot a group for anything. On those days, I just load my equiptment up and head for the house.

 

[LDHunter]

As I try to get ready for my first true long range hunting trip I've found that getting MOA performance to be equal at 100 through 500 yards is a lot harder than I originally thought it would be and have completely rethought and replanned for loading consistency and runout and distance from lands and ES and twist and and and.... LOL

It's not just farther and therefore just a little harder. It seems that with every hundred yards I add the degree of consistency in loading, shooting form, trigger pull, scope quality, scope leveling.... etc. becomes more critical and the difficulty of holding the same MOA performance seems to increase exponentially with each hundred yards I add beyond 300yds.

This ain't as easy as I though it would be... LOL

Back to basics and paying much more attention to minute details I go...

 

[tim_w]

Very interesting. I played with it and you are correct. Something seems not right about it. The amount that it shows a bullet gaining in stability is huge. It does not give with field data. I will have to do some research. Maybe a call to them.

Steve

As I understand it, the force of resistance from super sonic flight where the focus of main resistance is on the bullet tip. Therefore it causes flight speed to decay drastically. The bullets rotational speed is not hugely effected by the super sonic flight friction comparatively as it is with downrange velocity between super sonic and subsonic. Therefore the ratio of rev:vel grows. Obviously as vel decays you do need more twist just as we can slightly compensate for a small lack of barrel twist to achieve stability with a increase in MV. The real experts in this area would by Brian Litz and the guys at AB.


Couple ideas that could be the issue with groups if all mechincal issue posibilities have been checked. Many bullet designs do not do well cross thru transonic to sonic from super sonic. I did not look up the that bullet combo. Many people forget to include the increase in shoot margin of error as well as small variation that can be hidden in the measurement of the group. Then include the environmental and its easy to see a 0.5 moa group @100 being a .75 moa group @ 800 depending on those variables. I have also seen with the longer high BC groups actually tighten up a bit in moa by very good shooters i.e. bullet going to sleep range. As has been mentioned the amount of ES is going to have a more pronouced effect as distance increases. My SWAG is its a combo of a few or all of these factors.