Out of the Box: Best Long Range Target Rifle/Caliber/Ammo Combo?

benchracer said:
.25 MOA is a very high bar. There may be factory rifles here and there that will shoot .25 MOA groups from time to time, but you are very unlikely to acquire a factory rifle that will do that at all, let alone consistently. If you go the custom route, your odds improve, but even a custom rifle will not guarantee that level of accuracy.

That's the first issue. The second issue is shooter ability. Even from a bench, it takes pretty sound shooting fundamentals to get .25 MOA groups even as close as 100 yards.

With a good rifle that has a quality barrel, good handloads, and decent optics, .5 MOA is doable on a consistent basis. You may be able to better that by a little bit. I have two rifles that will. Neither of them will do .25 MOA though.

You don't need to go crazy with your scope just to shoot at the range. You need decent glass, reliably repeatable adjustments, adjustable parallax, and enough scope adjustment to get you to the 1000 yard mark. A 20 MOA base would also be helpful.

If you are not hunting, I see no reason to go with anything larger than a 7mm. In 7mm, I wouldn't go with a case any larger than the .284 Winchester (but I don't know of any factory rifles so chambered).

Something in the 6.5 or 6mm class would be a better bet. 6.5-284, 6.5x55, .260, 6.5 Creedmore, or 6.5x47 Lapua are all good options in a 6.5mm. The best performing 140g match bullets will require a 1:8 twist. I have a couple of rifles with 1:9 twists that handle 140 VLD's just fine, but that is kind a roll of the dice. 1:8 is a safer choice if you want to shoot the 140's.

As for 6mm, there are many options. Most of the popular benchrest rounds are, to my knowledge, not offered in factory rifles. However, the .243 is a very good option in the 6mm class. Just make sure you pay close attention to twist rate. The best 6mm bullets will require a 1:8 or 1:9 twist.

While you are in the research phase of your project, check out the cartridge guides on 6mmbr.com. There is a lot of useful information there.

As you reach out to extended ranges, you will quickly find that wind and mirage will be the biggest enemy of .5 MOA or smaller groups. That is where the science of riflery transforms into an art.
Click to expand...

Well said, +1
 
Re: Caliber?

DakotaGlockGuy said:
As far as caliber goes, would I be better served by a .308 instead of the 243 since I'm looking at a max distance of 1K yards?
Click to expand...

For wind, Yes. Think heavy bullets.

Also a Remmy .308 has a ton of useful info, and parts and pieces available.

It is one of the best places to start. You can shoot it all day long for years and years before you come close to wearing the barrel out.
 
I'm putting in another vote for the Savage model 12 F class, 6.5x284norma, yeah the 308 is fun and can be shot a lot but isn't a top notch choice for a 1000yrds. The f class will cost about 1150 then you can put a 8-32x56 Sightron SIII on it with good rings and a 20moa base for another 950. I had one that would shoot Cor-bon 139grn Lapua scenars or reloads with 139 scenars or 142 sierras into .2-.4moa at 100, and shot a few single digit groups with the rifle at 1k with 139 scenar reloads. I will say it carbon fouled about every 15-18 rounds but that wasn't a big issue, just clean it and continue shooting.
 
thats a big Negative on the .308! look at the BC of some of the bullets... 105 berger vld(8), 115 dtac(7), 105 amax(9)... of course all those bullets require a fast twist rate(listed beside it).but any of those bullets running avg speed in a .243 win compared to a 168gr or 175gr .308 at your avg speed, gonna drop less, less wind drift, and i know for a fact w/ the 115dtac have more Ft/lb of energy at 1,000yds also... with the 105 grainers its a tight race... the parts for the .308 are the same as .243 same short action, bolt face size, etc... the 175gr matchking in a .308 has a BC or .505(when pushed over 2,800fps) unless you have a 26-30in fctory barrel in .308 its gonna be hard to push any factory ammo with that bullet over 2,800fps. now, of the bullets listed for .243 the 105 a-max has the lowest BC of the 3, .515 G1, .532 for the berger i think, dtac .585?... now its gonna be hard to shoot any of those bullets below BELOW 2,800 fps... higher bc, higher velocity...(do the math)
now with that, the .308 factory match ammo will without a doubt stomp the .243 to death... anybody manufacture .308 match ammo, but .243... Corbon, Copper Creek, HSM and thats about it for 105gr + bullets.
 
The new 6mm 105grn berger hybrid has a .547g1 bc and if you decide to reload I still vote for the model 12 f class just in 6br instead of 6.5x284 because the barrel will last 4 times as long, even though a barrel replacement on a savage can be done for <350$. You should also be able to get 3k+ fps with the 6br and 105s with a .015-.025" jam and reloader 17, I get 3030-3060fps from a 29" kreiger with berger 105s jammed, lapua brass, cci450s, and 34.5grns of RE17, the rifle does quite well at 1k yrds and I bought it from a fellow lrh member. The reason for the swing in velocity is due to outside temp. Last time it was shot at 1k I put 8 rounds in under a 5" group but I messed up twice with 2 high right flyers for a 10.1" group, busted three clays in the sighter session though, I'm shocked and also very impressed with the power, velocity, efficiency, and especially the accuracy of a 6br, and all in a round that is about 2 3/8" long when loaded to be in the lands. Do some reading on accurate shooter formally 6br.com it'll give you the run down on all the good bench cartridges. Btw not to offend anyone but a Sendero is a overpriced hunting rifle, not a good bench rifle, and the reccomendation of a 300rum for bench shooting is ludacris, but if your a remington fan, buy one, just make sure you order a 200$ Jewell trigger to go with it, but likely you'll be buying other parts as well since their quality control has went to ****!
 
Easy a 5R milspec,they shoot right out of the box ( with FGMM ammo ) either in 168gn or 175gn SMK.Then put one of the other items said above on it for a scope.

And it will be well under your budget.So this leads to buying more ammo.I'd pick the 175gn ( 308 win )

It too comes in a 300wm or 223 rem, the barrel for the 223 comes in a 20 inch and 24, but the 300wm is 26 or 24 if I'm not wrong
 
Sully2 said:
Remington VLS model in .308 caliber
Federal Target ammo is you dont care to reload..( but you should)
Scope of your preference on a 20 MOA rail
Click to expand...

The VLS stock dosn't ride the bags very well, but with a few tricks can be made a lot better. If your kinda handy with a saw and are not afraid to do a serious rework of the stock, you can make it 100% better than it is out of the box. I've seen it done two or three times, and before paint it does look very ugly.

Or you can simply order in the Savage 12BVSS-s, and with about one hour of sanding here and there come out with a pretty good stock. But even then it can be made a lot better with about an hour of wood work, and about three hours of contouring. The Savage stock is far easier to rework as it's already halfway there.
gary
 
Re: Caliber?

DakotaGlockGuy said:
As far as caliber goes, would I be better served by a .308 instead of the 243 since I'm looking at a max distance of 1K yards?
Click to expand...

Might think of a 6mm Remington with a 1:8 twist barrel. The 6mm is a much better round than the .243, and handles long bullets way better. The basic .243 is a very poor case design that at best is always going to be a compromise. But just about anything the .243 will do the 6BR will be right on it's tail with less than i/4th the hassels
gary
 
Re: Caliber?

Trickymissfit said:
Might think of a 6mm Remington with a 1:8 twist barrel. The 6mm is a much better round than the .243, and handles long bullets way better. The basic .243 is a very poor case design that at best is always going to be a compromise. But just about anything the .243 will do the 6BR will be right on it's tail with less than i/4th the hassels
gary
Click to expand...
If you say so, not been my experience. My 243 is and always has been a wonderful gun, it always done what I needed it to do and I've never been left wanting by it.
 
Re: Caliber?

Joe King said:
If you say so, not been my experience. My 243 is and always has been a wonderful gun, it always done what I needed it to do and I've never been left wanting by it.
Click to expand...

there's very little difference between the 6mm and the .243 from the shoulders back. But the neck is much better with the 6mm. Both rounds are near max bore capacity for a 24 caliber (per Ackley), but one is better. Better yet is to build a 6BG, and step back. It's similar to the .243 (1.552" shoulder deminsion) but with a 30 degree shoulder and a .33" neck length. Yet the case is formed out of a generic .243 case. Will push a 105 grain Amax to nearly 3000 fps without pressure problems, and the barrel will probably last 2000+ rounds
gary
 
Joe what Gary is trying to say is that the 243 is a good round, just not for benchrest or long fast shot strings, with its 20* shoulder and short neck, rapid firing a 243 will destroy a barrel throat faster than a 6.5x284 because over 1/3 of the powder is burned outside the case, in the throat.
 
Thanks again for all your help guys. I really appreciate it.

I like this forum (and thread!) because it provides not just a tremendous amount of experience, but also the theory behind that experience.

As far as the 6mm is concerned, if I do go with that caliber, am I pretty much locking myself into reloading, or is that ammo readily available? I just checked my go-to ammo site: sgammo.com and noticed that they don't have any 6mm. Checking at luckygunner.com, then only have 2 choices.

Again I'm very new to this, but the limited availability of the rounds makes me a little leary.
 
benchracer said:
.25 MOA is a very high bar. There may be factory rifles here and there that will shoot .25 MOA groups from time to time, but you are very unlikely to acquire a factory rifle that will do that at all, let alone consistently. If you go the custom route, your odds improve, but even a custom rifle will not guarantee that level of accuracy.

That's the first issue. The second issue is shooter ability. Even from a bench, it takes pretty sound shooting fundamentals to get .25 MOA groups even as close as 100 yards.

With a good rifle that has a quality barrel, good handloads, and decent optics, .5 MOA is doable on a consistent basis. You may be able to better that by a little bit. I have two rifles that will. Neither of them will do .25 MOA though.

You don't need to go crazy with your scope just to shoot at the range. You need decent glass, reliably repeatable adjustments, adjustable parallax, and enough scope adjustment to get you to the 1000 yard mark. A 20 MOA base would also be helpful.

If you are not hunting, I see no reason to go with anything larger than a 7mm. In 7mm, I wouldn't go with a case any larger than the .284 Winchester (but I don't know of any factory rifles so chambered).

Something in the 6.5 or 6mm class would be a better bet. 6.5-284, 6.5x55, .260, 6.5 Creedmore, or 6.5x47 Lapua are all good options in a 6.5mm. The best performing 140g match bullets will require a 1:8 twist. I have a couple of rifles with 1:9 twists that handle 140 VLD's just fine, but that is kind a roll of the dice. 1:8 is a safer choice if you want to shoot the 140's.

As for 6mm, there are many options. Most of the popular benchrest rounds are, to my knowledge, not offered in factory rifles. However, the .243 is a very good option in the 6mm class. Just make sure you pay close attention to twist rate. The best 6mm bullets will require a 1:8 or 1:9 twist.

While you are in the research phase of your project, check out the cartridge guides on 6mmbr.com. There is a lot of useful information there.

As you reach out to extended ranges, you will quickly find that wind and mirage will be the biggest enemy of .5 MOA or smaller groups. That is where the science of riflery transforms into an art.
Click to expand...
Just love your post. I learned a lot from your wisdom. Wish this site has a "like" button, so I don't sound like I'm your agent.
 
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