338 Norma Review By Ward W. Brien

WWB said:
So, you're a riflemaker... And you built a blueprinted, custom 700,
with a modified reamer of your own design.
That's wonderful... Did you happen to see the group shot with
The Norma in the article about the Norma on this web site.
You have succeeded in bastardizing a great & proven
design, & reducing accuracy.
Click to expand...


Didn't mean to upset you, you sure put me in my place, feel better now?
As I understand it Jimmie Sloan shortened a 338 Lapua case so that with a 300 gr. bullet it would fit in a unmodified Rem. 700 3.6" mag. box and what I did, and many others, was change the the shoulder angle so that maybe it would perform like the Rum case in a shorter version and I am sure that is what the intention of others who have done the same, be it 30, 35 or the proven 40 deg. Ackley shoulder, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, but we try and testing proves it out. As far as accuracy goes testing will prove that and us, that want to, can put the results on a separate thread so as not to hijack your thread. Again, sorry for upsetting you.

Ken
 
WWB said:
So, you're a riflemaker... And you built a blueprinted, custom 700,
with a modified reamer of your own design.
That's wonderful... Did you happen to see the group shot with
The Norma in the article about the Norma on this web site.
You have succeeded in bastardizing a great & proven
design, & reducing accuracy.
Click to expand...

Man Ward, chill out a little. If no one was trying new things we be stuck in a rut. Heck we might all be still shooting a black powder rifle. I'm not saying that this 35 degree shoulder on the Norma case is going to change the course of history, but it's different strokes for different folks. Heck, the 338 Lapua is proven, yet Jimmy Sloan wanted something better, so he made the Norma. Experimentation drives innovation and advances our industry. That's why we have all the cool stuff we do now, including the 338 Norma.
 
Dear krlemas and bailey1474:

I apologize to you for coming across so harsh. I was answering your post from my android and just spat it out. So, please accept my apology as it was not my intention.

Let me tell you a story... When the 338 Norma was just coming online, I was extremely impressed with it's accuracy and smoothness. It's velocity at one mile was just above 1400 fps and it ft. lbs. of energy was close to matching that. I think 1300+... While calling wind for Richard McKinney, (Riflemaker who made my first 338 Norma), he shot about a 6" group at 1574 meters. Not on a range, but in a real world mountain environment. It shot better than the 338 Norma that I had shot prior to my build. I asked myself why? Later I found out that the other rifle-maker, when ordering a reamer from Mr. Keef at Pacific Tool and Gauge, took it upon himself to change the dimensions. It performed well, but not as well as the Sloan design.

Fast forward to about one year ago, and the reports for the .338 Norma from credible "Players" in the firearms industry began coming out. Some of that information is as follows,

The .338 Norma is THREE TIMES more accurate downrange than the .338 Lapua. This theoretically means that as mentioned above, with the .338 Norma shooting 6 inches at 1574 meters, that the Lapua would be presenting 18" groups.

Regarding the .338 Lapua; throat erosion occurred at 700 rounds. Barrel life of the .338 Norma is Three Times Longer.

That is only a portion of the .338 Norma's character.

So, if you like trying new things, Please let me know when you make it better.

My very best regards to you,

Ward
 
No hard feelings here. I know it can be hard to interpret emotion from the typed word. I'll be the first to admit I probably wasted money trying to improve something that is already so good but only bullets in the air will tell us!! I will let you know.
 
WWB said:
Dear krlemas and bailey1474:

I apologize to you for coming across so harsh. I was answering your post from my android and just spat it out. So, please accept my apology as it was not my intention.

Let me tell you a story... When the 338 Norma was just coming online, I was extremely impressed with it's accuracy and smoothness. It's velocity at one mile was just above 1400 fps and it ft. lbs. of energy was close to matching that. I think 1300+... While calling wind for Richard McKinney, (Riflemaker who made my first 338 Norma), he shot about a 6" group at 1574 meters. Not on a range, but in a real world mountain environment. It shot better than the 338 Norma that I had shot prior to my build. I asked myself why? Later I found out that the other rifle-maker, when ordering a reamer from Mr. Keef at Pacific Tool and Gauge, took it upon himself to change the dimensions. It performed well, but not as well as the Sloan design.

Fast forward to about one year ago, and the reports for the .338 Norma from credible "Players" in the firearms industry began coming out. Some of that information is as follows,

The .338 Norma is THREE TIMES more accurate downrange than the .338 Lapua. This theoretically means that as mentioned above, with the .338 Norma shooting 6 inches at 1574 meters, that the Lapua would be presenting 18" groups.

Regarding the .338 Lapua; throat erosion occurred at 700 rounds. Barrel life of the .338 Norma is Three Times Longer.

That is only a portion of the .338 Norma's character.

So, if you like trying new things, Please let me know when you make it better.

My very best regards to you,

Ward
Click to expand...


No problem here, everything is give and take, increase velocity and down range energy lose barrel life, Increase shoulder angle increase feeding problems from magazine, it's all fun and life goes on.

Ken
 
Thank you Brother. If you get my way, please look me up.
We have a great streak place close by.

Cheers,

Ward
 
Great group of guys on this site. If the last few threads of conversation would have taken place over on SH, there would have been a 3-4 page ****ing match going on.
 
WWB Could you tale me what lench barrel is best and what twist. Richard McKinney made your first 338 norma he shot 6'' group at 1574 meters. Could you tale me what powder and bullet and barrel lench and twist Thanks for your time.
 
Last edited:
Gentlemen my barrel is chucked up in the lathe right now for 338 norma mag...

I just read 14 pages of good info and my eyes are now blurry for looking at my screen for so long...im pretty sure it was posted but i just didnt catch it but what bushing are any of you using? is it a .362"?

Thanks in advance

Chase
 
The Barrel Lug that I use is 1/4" thick.
The Barrel is manufactured by "Mark Chanlynn" of "Rocky Mountain Rifle Works," and his phone number is as follows: (303) 823-6270. He is one of the Very Best Barrel manufacturers around and has been making them for 40+ years. He also apprenticed under "Boots Obermeyer."

The Barrel has a 1:9.1" Twist ratio and at the time was 28" long. The ideal length of the barrel is 26" overall, however at the time, the barrel was 28" overall.

The powder that I utilize at my elevation, (8200 ASL) is Reloader 22 and the primers are Fed 215M.

There are two accuracy nodes that I load, one is 82.5 grains which gives me 2649 fps and the other is 84.2 grains which gives me 2,785 fps. The lighter load stabilizes at 100 meters and shoots basically a hole. The 84.2 shoots bigger at 100 meters, approximately 3/8" but shoots exceptionally small at and beyond 300 meters.

The bullets utilized are the 300 grain SMK's and they are loaded IN THE LANDS .003".

I have another .338 Norma that I have been working with that likes a jump and shoots the same whether .005" or at .02". The group size is one hole but once in awhile jumps an 1/8". I have 37 rounds down that pipe, so in a few more rounds I'll start seeking out a trend.

The .338 Norma is The Best Cartridge that I have ever shot. It works so well and the barrel life is 2.5 times longer than the LaPua with downrange Accuracy about three times better. That is a Fact.
 
WWB

Quite awhile ago we had talked on the phone and you were in the bigining stages of working up loads of Ramshot Magnum and Winchester mag primers for your 338 Norma.

I see you are still using RL22. What happened with the Ramshot?

Have you had any success with any powders other than RL22?
 
In my opinion, the Ramshot was a little too hot for the altitude. Up here, (8200' ASL) 1/10th of a grain makes a noticeable difference. Powder has its own O2, however at my altitude the O2 is decreased by (I think) 30%. So, when the bullet makes its initial jump and the combustion/flame is exposed to the atmosphere, the burn rate is different.

When I first moved here from Los Angeles, the loads for my .300 Win Mag didn't work. I went from shooting very small groups to 1+ inches at 100 yards. After many attempts of rectifying the problem, an acquaintance of mine told me that I needed to go to a slightly slower burning powder and that 1/10th of a grain made a difference. So, I changed from IMR 4831 to H4831SC and it worked.

I have heard from others that the Ramshot Magnum powder and the Winchester Large Rifle Magnum primers work very well at lower altitudes. So, there you have it. I'm now back at working up a load for a new .338 Norma that Mark Chanlynn built for me, and I am again utilizing the RL22.
 
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