Ladder test of .308 with H4895. Am I doing this right?

What's your goal?

If it's tight groups. Let's see those groupings of 5 or 10.

If it's a specific FPS you want, then your on the right track. What are you using for brass?

I wouldn't bother too much on seating depth. That can come last and it's a semi so you are limited to mag length anyway.


Hornady gets that higher FPS with longer barrels for their testing. Don't chase manufacturing loads. Chase what works In your rifle.
 
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Lefty38-55 said:
Now that's an interesting way to try it! Now I can't go into the technical details as well as Dan Newberry can, who came up with the Opticmal Charge Weight (OCW) method, but in his method you also plot the shot impact. In fact, he has a few very interesting OCW tests using 6.5s where people were chastising him for ignoring the ES of the load velocities, but in the end, the nodes his method identified were clearly superior. At long range too, even though they weren't the loads with the 'best' velocity values that some chase. The (his) lesson is, chasing the best velocity statistical numbers is foolish if the bullet is exiting the bore whilst the barrel is moving (sine wave) at its most!

With that all said, for using the IMR version of the 4895 powdah (yes, I know they're different, but close ... ) and a 168-grain bullet (albeit the SMK), his sweet spot was 43.6 grains - see attached. Maybe for what you already know, you could try his method (3 shots per load) from 42.8 to 43.2 or 43.4 by 0.2 grain increments, and plot the impacts? I for one would be most curious. Get the velocity data too.

Without having Dan's 'cheat sheet' (that he publishes on his website [see below] for various popular calibers) ?perhaps? your method helps to pinpoint (and to do it faster, with less components used) a powder value/range to then further explore via his OCW method? FWIW I'm going to try your method, followed by my typical OCW approach, after I get done glass-bedding my latest project (Ruger No. 1 in 7mm Rem Mag, with freakin' incredible wood!).


6XC Test/115 DTAC =
Click to expand...

I like this method of testing.It makes alot of sense to me.Im glad you posted it.Thank you.
 
Doozy said:
By the way, how in the world does Hornady's Superformance factory ammo get such great velocities? This same rifle shoots a Superformance SST 165 grain bullet at an average of 2792 fps.

I'd like to use whatever they are using.
Click to expand...
My 24" 308 shoots the 165SST Superformance 2890 +
The 150 shoots 2980 , but won't group For ****
 
I ran the IMR4895 and was really pleased with it. I was also running a 26 inch barrel. I ran 44.4 grains. Manner of fact I still have 50 of the 168 AMAX loaded up. This was pretty stable consistent load in my Marlin X7. It shot between .5 to .75 MOA and I regular shot it out to 1000yrds for practice. I never should have got rid of it but someone was wanting it and I had my eye on another rifle. I plan on getting me another 308 at some point.
 
Doozy said:
By the way, how in the world does Hornady's Superformance factory ammo get such great velocities? This same rifle shoots a Superformance SST 165 grain bullet at an average of 2792 fps.

I'd like to use whatever they are using.
Click to expand...
That is the issue. They use proprietary powders a special mix that they developed during their product testing. They will never let you know what it is, and you can't buy it. The only thing that you can do is try to duplicate using components that are available to you. I have been able to come close to duplicating my favorite Federal and Sig Sauer loads but while close, the factory loads always have the slightest of edge.
 
I have found finding seating depth first to be the best way of then trying powder tests.
At least then when you find a a powder charge, the seating depth is a known fact.
I also use the OCW test at 100, then move to 300 to fine tune. I do my testing initially at 100 with exactly the same components but with different primers.
I'm always looking for a wide node, a narrow node might shoot lights out in the morning but degrade enough over a weekend to put your agg out enough to not be worthwhile, while a wide node may shoot a little bigger, but it stays there throughout a weekend. Same goes for seating depth, you want a wide one that doesn't change over a weekend as the throat erodes.
It's all about compromise, if shooting BR or similar, then the tightest group you can produce wins, but if it's an agg shoot, you better have a load that is wide enough that small changes in seating depth aren't gonna make or break the outcome very much.

Cheers.
 
Doozy said:
I'm very new to reloading.

Just shot a 10-shot ladder using H4895 ranging between 41.0 to 43.7 gr (using a 168 gr Hornady BTHP bullet out of a 20" barreled AR-10 platform). By the results (see chart below) it looks like the sweet spot would be to use around 43.1 grains (because even if that specific shot was a little low, that's where the grade/incline in fps seems to plateau; I have three data points where there's only about 17 fps difference between them. (Another plateau seems to be around 41.3-41.6).

Am I doing this right?

I'm thinking my next step would to use my 43.1 grains of H4895 and alter the distance to lands... maybe start with 3x loads at 0.040" away, another three at 0.080", another 3x at 0.120"....

Thank you for your advice.

View attachment 329900
View attachment 329895
Click to expand...
I do it almost the same except I start taking multiple shots and using the average and starting with larger steps and getting smaller. For example, I would probably of loaded this latter 41x1, 41.4x1, 41.8x1, 42.2x2, 42.5x2, 42.7x2, 43x3, 43.2x3, 42.4x3, 42.6x2. It takes a few more shots but I it has never given me bad results.
 
MagnumManiac said:
I have found finding seating depth first to be the best way of then trying powder tests.
At least then when you find a a powder charge, the seating depth is a known fact.
I also use the OCW test at 100, then move to 300 to fine tune. I do my testing initially at 100 with exactly the same components but with different primers.
I'm always looking for a wide node, a narrow node might shoot lights out in the morning but degrade enough over a weekend to put your agg out enough to not be worthwhile, while a wide node may shoot a little bigger, but it stays there throughout a weekend. Same goes for seating depth, you want a wide one that doesn't change over a weekend as the throat erodes.
It's all about compromise, if shooting BR or similar, then the tightest group you can produce wins, but if it's an agg shoot, you better have a load that is wide enough that small changes in seating depth aren't gonna make or break the outcome very much.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
What is an agg shoot ? And you run A.I. chambers. Do you work on seating depth while fire forming or use COW method ?
 
F-class & Hunter class are aggregate shoots.
No, with AI and other Improved cartridges, I do all fire forming first with COW.
Then I work up loads and seating depth as per my normal procedures.

Cheers.
 
MagnumManiac said:
F-class & Hunter class are aggregate shoots.
No, with AI and other Improved cartridges, I do all fire forming first with COW.
Then I work up loads and seating depth as per my normal procedures.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Okeedoekee, I thought that y'all might just spell 🥚 eggs different down there
I know very liiiittttttlle a bout competition bench shooting
Thanks
 
Doozy said:
I'm very new to reloading.

Just shot a 10-shot ladder using H4895 ranging between 41.0 to 43.7 gr (using a 168 gr Hornady BTHP bullet out of a 20" barreled AR-10 platform).
Click to expand...
I don't try to match bolt action rifle velocities or pressure in semi autos. That's my general rule. It's best to find load data for semi auto, or AR type, rifles when possible. You might contact Hornady to see if they have any.
 
Try Winchestr 748 in your .308. I have 4 rifles in .308's and it works great in all of them. Tried about half dozen other powders and 748 seems to be made for the .308.
 
Doozy said:
By the way, how in the world does Hornady's Superformance factory ammo get such great velocities? This same rifle shoots a Superformance SST 165 grain bullet at an average of 2792 fps.

I'd like to use whatever they are using.
Click to expand...
Superformance is a slightly slower burning powder than the 4350 band. Used in calibers 243-65cm-308 it (and 100v) gets better velocities than you can get with any of the 4350s except maybe Reloader 16. But that's because Reloader16 is very close to a temp stable Reloader17. Superformance and 100v occupy the no man's land between 4350 and 4831/7828. Try putting a powder in this band (4831 Re23 for example) into a Creedmoor case. You can't get enough to fit to make it worth it. On the other hand you CAN hit pressure with H4350 or others before hitting compressed loads.
 
Doozy said:
I'm very new to reloading.

Just shot a 10-shot ladder using H4895 ranging between 41.0 to 43.7 gr (using a 168 gr Hornady BTHP bullet out of a 20" barreled AR-10 platform). By the results (see chart below) it looks like the sweet spot would be to use around 43.1 grains (because even if that specific shot was a little low, that's where the grade/incline in fps seems to plateau; I have three data points where there's only about 17 fps difference between them. (Another plateau seems to be around 41.3-41.6).

Am I doing this right?

I'm thinking my next step would to use my 43.1 grains of H4895 and alter the distance to lands... maybe start with 3x loads at 0.040" away, another three at 0.080", another 3x at 0.120"....

Thank you for your advice.

View attachment 329900
View attachment 329895
Click to expand...
Dont know if this was said but I think between 42.8 and 43.1 is where you should test
 

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