How would you read these OCW groups?

the444shooter said:
No, I shot the OCW w/ 2.837 COAL. I derived the 2.837 from the promising group that 41.9 @ 2.840 showed. I'm really trying to figure out the baseline to start from. In watching the video from Ryan Furman that you showed me, he suggested seating depth test first, so that's what I was trying to establish with the varying seating depths at 41.9, and it led me to 2.840
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Rammac gave a good suggestion the change of .03, in seating depth between the two targets could explain why the 41.9 on OCW opened up .
 
the444shooter said:
Thanks—I feel like I've been reading a lot, but not absorbing. I haven't done any brass prep, save for trimming.
I'm kind of back to the drawing board with this. I've done several pressure tests up to 42.5gr and feel like there is more room to go higher. Velocity at 42.5 is ~2700fps.

Am I understanding that an OCW test will identify where any* bullet will shoot well in a gun or will there always be bullets that are just difficult to shoot well?
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I've tried to use good bullets that I just couldn't get to shoot well. Your target doesn't really tell me to try something more. I like to see groups that are in the same area on target for two of thos powder charges. I like to use 0.3 grain steps also for that size cartridge. Are you shooting at 100 yards?

I couldn't get the ABLR to shoot well in a .260 or in a 300 WinMag.. But in hind sight I didn't do a seating depth test. If you want to stick with the ABLR I would suggest doing seating depth testing. I like to use 0.010" steps. For this bullet take it up to 0.150" off the lands.

I'm currently having trouble finding a load for a 22-250.
 
To get your seating depth sweet spot, you use a mid range powder charge of a mid range powder and shoot in .010" increments away from touching first before you do anything else. You can use 3 shots for initial testing, then when you find the sweet spot, fine tune by going .005" above and below with 2 shots, when the 2 shots are indistinguishable on paper you know you have the sweet spot.
This will stay the same throughout all other load development for that bullet.
Powder charge AND different primers need exploring too, then the final step is neck tension. Once all other variables are known, you then start with light tension and work into heavier tension, .005" is as far as I have gone, only one of my barrels likes .004" tension, the others all prefer .0015"-.002".
If this rifle is a factory barrel, you may just have a 1 MoA rifle and that's the best it will ever be. Sorry, but it happens all too often.

Cheers.
 
Magnum, you are right on neck tension. I found the .0015-.002 to be the sweet spot in 5 cartridges I load for. My load development process is a bit different. I do my powder charge work ups on a chrono looking for a group of loads with low es/sd. Then I pick the middle charge weight and start seating depth adjustments. Since I shoot mainly Barnes, I start at .020 off jam and work back in increments of .005. There are a lot of great methods out there and all work well but this works well for me.
444, the creedmoor is an accurate target cartridge that a lot of guys like to hot rod for hunting. It's one quirk I've found in my testing is that it just isn't large enough to hold enough h 4350 or reloaded 16 which are the powders it loves. The only option here is a denser powder In that burn range. I know times are tight but if you have any, you may also want to try reloader 17, N-555, N550, and possibly reloader 26 which is very dense and give higher speeds at lower pressures. I've never been able to get pressure signs in the cm with these.
 
JMW67 said:
your 41.6 looks good try .2 lower and .2 higher take the best one and play with seating depth this is what I would try and have you done any brass prep
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I have found 41.5 on this bullet weight range in SMK, Hornady to be Golden...just me....OP go to You Tube for a bit....6.5 has HOURS of testing...one fella tested every primer known to man using same charge same bullet...a lot of people have asked....What do primers do to affect groups...can I use mag primers in non mag shells..but you will see everything you can imagine to help and CONFUSE YOU ..on the TUBE...
 
rammac said:
With OCW you're looking for the powder charges that have the least change in the center of the group, the theory being that the center of the groups will change less with variations in shooting conditions and cartridge components.
View attachment 258102

Assuming that your target was at 100 yards, I ran a quick evaluation of the groups through my OnTarget TDS software. If you look at the group markups you will see a small cross in the center of the group box, that's the center of the group. What you want to find is the groups that have the least difference between where that cross is in relation to your point of aim. So assuming that your point of aim was the center of each dot the least change was between the 41.6 and 41.9 powder charges. I'd recommend working your next loads between those powder charges. I'd also stick with the 2.840" seating depth. It looks to me like you should get your best 100 yard groups using around 41.6 grains of powder and a seating depth of 2.840". If that proves to be true then I'd test at longer ranges and see if the group sizes and center points perform as expected.
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This is right on from what my understanding of OCW is. 41.6-41.9 is where I would explore my seating depth. Start with as long as possible for either your mag length limitations or chamber length limitations and shoot groups .003" shorter for each group. Find at least two depths next to each other that are grouping tight and use them. You may squeak a bit more by tweaking neck tension as well. I don't want to discourage you but there is a possibility that your gun just won't like the ABLR. They are known to give many experienced handloaders fits. Good luck but don't be discouraged to move to another bullet before you give up on anything else.
 
Tiny Tim said:
If your getting vertical, it may be your set-up. If your shooting with bags, perhaps your rear is too stiff.
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My wife has never accused me of having a stiff rear, but I'm trying my best at the gym.

Butt, seriously, that's also a real possibility. Thanks for chiming in.
 
41.7 takes it. At both 2.837 (top) and 2.840 (bottom) but I'll be focusing on 41.7 @ 2.837 for the duration.
Thanks, all, for your comments and suggestions.
9EB5B823-4A45-46C9-BA13-46D3E62B1BA3.jpeg
 
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