codyadams
Well-Known Member
Those were into ballistic gel.
Anyone using PVA Cayuga bullets?
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Browninglover1
Well-Known Member
I'm shooting the 151 Cayugas at 3200 fps in a 24" 7 SAUM with 0.5 MOA accuracy. I worked that load in less than 20 rounds. Super forgiving bullet to load in my rifle. I haven't taken them to distance yet but I wanted to see how they'd shoot and so far they're doing well.
Solids on game is not necessarily my style but I may try to poke a coyote with one in the next few months.
Solids on game is not necessarily my style but I may try to poke a coyote with one in the next few months.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
They recommend a minimum of a 10 twist, not a big difference but obviously enough, plus if it's a button rifled barrel, there is the possibility of the twist being slightly off one way or another. Not as likely with a single point cut. I have heard of people with button rifled barrels being off by a half inch or more! I prefer to go even tighter than the minimum, went with a 7.5 twist in my wife's Sherman max to make sure it will work with the monos I plan on running in it.
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My "10-twist" Lilja button rifled barrel turned out to be a 10.55 twist. I only order cut rifled barrels, after that realization.
Painless300
Well-Known Member
I received 500pcs of 210 Cayuga's with in 4 days of placing the order with Josh. I weighed 10 from each 100 pcs bag and they were extremely consistent at 209.4gr. I had heard there were a lot of inconsistencies but I did not see this. Waiting for my 300WSM CW Benchmark barrel from TS Customs to get here. I had it throated for 215 bergers with a 1-9 tw so we will see how these Cayuga's shoot. I have also heard the claimed BC were being reported as being high. Soon as I get a load built and do some testing I'll report back on ease of loading, accuracy, BC, and etc..
codyadams
Well-Known Member
I also noticed very good consistency with the .277 126 bullets. I was measuring OAL, and after measuring 40 out of 100, I gave up. They were all exactly the same, and I mean exactly. If there were any changes in OAL, it was so minor that my calipers could not measure it.
Determining bc by field drops can be very challenging to get the actual number to what the bullet actually is. Any undue stress on the scope tube (my only prefered method to mount an optic now is a light, 2 or 3 passes lapping rings to remove any possible sharp edges and prepare the surface for bedding, then stress free bed the scope to the rings), any issues in the tracking of the scope, any up or down drafts or strong side winds in the field, different rifling geometries and the way the affect different types of bullets, some more some less, all can have either a single, or stacked affect on bullet drop. It is still very useful as it tells you where your bullet will actually impact, which is very important obviously, but I do think it has historically lead to mismatching bc numbers for many different manufacturers on forums like this. As stated however, confirming drops is absolutely necessary to get the dope needed for long range shots.
Unfortunately I can't think of many other good ways to get the numbers other than field drops. I do plan on experimenting in the future, by putting a lab radar behind a steel target at range, say 800 yards, and fire shots past it to get a reading at range, in conjunction with recorded muzzle velocities of the same shots to get a 100% accurate bc calculated by velocities at different ranges.
Determining bc by field drops can be very challenging to get the actual number to what the bullet actually is. Any undue stress on the scope tube (my only prefered method to mount an optic now is a light, 2 or 3 passes lapping rings to remove any possible sharp edges and prepare the surface for bedding, then stress free bed the scope to the rings), any issues in the tracking of the scope, any up or down drafts or strong side winds in the field, different rifling geometries and the way the affect different types of bullets, some more some less, all can have either a single, or stacked affect on bullet drop. It is still very useful as it tells you where your bullet will actually impact, which is very important obviously, but I do think it has historically lead to mismatching bc numbers for many different manufacturers on forums like this. As stated however, confirming drops is absolutely necessary to get the dope needed for long range shots.
Unfortunately I can't think of many other good ways to get the numbers other than field drops. I do plan on experimenting in the future, by putting a lab radar behind a steel target at range, say 800 yards, and fire shots past it to get a reading at range, in conjunction with recorded muzzle velocities of the same shots to get a 100% accurate bc calculated by velocities at different ranges.
Do you have a method to trigger a LabRadar at 800yds, to catch the bullet velocity down range? I didn't know that type of down range bullet velocity measurement was possible with a LabRadar...
codyadams
Well-Known Member
I would think if an air rifle will trigger the labradar with the external mic, that the hypersonic crack of the bullet would do it as well. My plan was to have a target made with a 6x6 cutout in the middle, and large enough to protect the radar from misses, and shoot through the hole to record velocities. I haven't tried it so not certain it would work, but in theory I think it would.....
Well let me know if it works Cody. When I purchased my LabRadar, I talked to one of their sales reps and he told me it wasn't possible to record down range velocities. But that's been maybe 3 yrs ago. So if it is possible, I'd like to do that also.
Even with out collecting down range velocity, I do calculate a bullet BC values over the first 80-100yds of bullet travel with my LabRadar. Just involves some time with my ballistics software. Some trial and error on BC values until I arrive at a BC that matches the velocity decay over the first 80-100yds. Sometimes I'll record velocity all the way out to 100yds,which is nice. But I generally catch bullet velocities over the first 80yds. If I shoot 3, 4, or 5 bullets, I'll average their velocity at 0, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100yds. And then tweak the input BC value with my ColdBore 1.0 ballistic program until I get a good velocity match at those yardages. It's pretty darn close. Gives a high end BC value because I'm determining the BC at the bullets highest velocity from my rifle. And we know bullet BC value decreases as velocity decreases at longer ranges.
I have a triplicate optical chronograph setup, and have used it to collect bullet velocity at 1000yds. Two Oehlers and One PACT chronograph set up on a single skyscreen rail. I protected the skylights with an AR500 steel plate. Had to have good conditions to place the bullets over the skyscreens at 1000yds. The AR500 plate kept me from destroying my 7 skylights on a few errant shots. I'd receive 4 separate velocity recordings using that setup (2 from the Oehler 35P), so I had high confidence in the values when all recorded velocities were in agreement. But the LabRadar would be much simpler (more forgiving on bullet placement) if it could triggered "on" by the sonic crack of the rifle bullet.
Even with out collecting down range velocity, I do calculate a bullet BC values over the first 80-100yds of bullet travel with my LabRadar. Just involves some time with my ballistics software. Some trial and error on BC values until I arrive at a BC that matches the velocity decay over the first 80-100yds. Sometimes I'll record velocity all the way out to 100yds,which is nice. But I generally catch bullet velocities over the first 80yds. If I shoot 3, 4, or 5 bullets, I'll average their velocity at 0, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100yds. And then tweak the input BC value with my ColdBore 1.0 ballistic program until I get a good velocity match at those yardages. It's pretty darn close. Gives a high end BC value because I'm determining the BC at the bullets highest velocity from my rifle. And we know bullet BC value decreases as velocity decreases at longer ranges.
I have a triplicate optical chronograph setup, and have used it to collect bullet velocity at 1000yds. Two Oehlers and One PACT chronograph set up on a single skyscreen rail. I protected the skylights with an AR500 steel plate. Had to have good conditions to place the bullets over the skyscreens at 1000yds. The AR500 plate kept me from destroying my 7 skylights on a few errant shots. I'd receive 4 separate velocity recordings using that setup (2 from the Oehler 35P), so I had high confidence in the values when all recorded velocities were in agreement. But the LabRadar would be much simpler (more forgiving on bullet placement) if it could triggered "on" by the sonic crack of the rifle bullet.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Ya, I hope it would work, I have had hypersonic bullets fly pretty close past me, and I know without a doubt it's louder than my moderated pcp rifle, so I THINK the external mic trigger would work......
Tripodmvr7
Well-Known Member
Monolithic bullets need to be lighter by 20 to 30% in weight to ensure stabilization in the normal twists of rifles. Adding tighter twist barrels helps, but you still need to look at twist calculators to see if the super long bullets will work. What I have found is that over long copper mono's tumble very easily on impact with the hide of an animal and cause serious blood shot meat. If they are unstable in flight the effect is enhanced. Rather go lighter in weight and get the speed up to ensure expansion. Penetration is hardly ever a problem with the mono's. Your ballistic app will calculate slow and fast bullets of different BC's without a problem - wind displacement will be the difficult one at range if speed drops fast due to poor BC.
The newest electronic targets determine point of impact via sound and also record terminal speed. Might be easier than fiddling with the Labradar.
The newest electronic targets determine point of impact via sound and also record terminal speed. Might be easier than fiddling with the Labradar.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Ran a bc test on the 127 .270 Cayuga, not with a lab radar, just the ol shoot and see method. Zeroed at 100, shot at 300, 510, and 896. Didn't take pics of the 300 yard group, it was exactly POA and that close really doesn't interest me. Here is the 510 and 896 yard groups.
The 4 darker impacts are 510, the far left impact was due to the 10ish mph wind (gusting from 5 to 12 mph) dropping off significantly. Then the three lighter impacts were at 896. I was going to run it out to 1200+ yards, but ran out of light. For reference, the black dot is the bottom of a spray paint can.
Out to this range, the G7 bc Josh states of .245 is shaking out very close. 25" barrel running supressed, Arken EP-4 optic.
The 4 darker impacts are 510, the far left impact was due to the 10ish mph wind (gusting from 5 to 12 mph) dropping off significantly. Then the three lighter impacts were at 896. I was going to run it out to 1200+ yards, but ran out of light. For reference, the black dot is the bottom of a spray paint can.
Out to this range, the G7 bc Josh states of .245 is shaking out very close. 25" barrel running supressed, Arken EP-4 optic.
How have you found the Cayuga projos relative to the Badlands Gen II for pressuring up? I run the 7mm 150 Badlands Gen 2's at 3,711 fps. Could I expect the Cayuga 151's come out about the same?
