Unfired brass?

I FLS, trim, and load, if I don't have the gage.

If I have the Hornady minimum SAAMI case gage for the caliber I drop them in it and neck only if they fit. No use making the mess, wear & tear if FLS is not needed. Sometimes I de-burr the flash hole.

You can find the load(node) with new brass. Sometimes you will need to back the load off a little to get back to the velocity node sometimes you will need no change. I can't see the point in wasting components and barrel life. My new 6.5 PRC needed no load adjustment from new to once fired ADG. My newest 30 Nosler I had to back off .7 grains to get back to the accuracy. Every barrel I have every had also speeds up somewhere between 75 and 150 rounds. It speeds up anywhere form ~50fps to ~100 and when that happens I have always just backed the powder charge back off to the velocity the bullet was accurate at and I am done. My 6.5 PRC sped up ~70fps. My newest nosler was ~60fps. Between going from new brass and once fired and the barrel speed up on my nosler my final load ended up 2 grains lower than the original. Both were under .5 moa out to 1k with <20fps es and single digit sd.I could not disagree more with a dedicated fire form regimen with a non improved cartridge but you do need more data to make it work. There is a lot you can learn about your rifle and the load in the first 100 rounds. Also the lack of full length sizing every time just puts one more inconsistency in your process that makes no sense. Full length every time with a minimal shoulder bump so you have the same brass every time.

ka30270 said:

Just curious what everyone else does. When you start out with a new batch of brass do you work up a load with the brass as is or do you jam one into the lands and allow a "fire form" to your chamber THEN start load workup?

Thanks

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You never mentioned if it was a new chamber, or just introducing new brass to one in use.
If it's a rifle you have been shooting, I'd probably fire the minimum amount of brass needed to finish off the barrel, then do load dev.
If it is a new rifle, the amount of brass you plan on putting into service would dictate how I'd go about doing it. If I only had 100 pcs of brass, I'd just find a fun load to shoot and break the barrel in at the same time, then do extensive load dev.
If I had 400 pcs, now you probably need to develop a load, when all brass is fired, make a determination if the load may need a tweak. In this scenario now there is less brass expansion and I will usually end up pulling .1-2gr of powder to keep it in the zone.
We all use different terminology, but unless you are reconfiguring brass, moving the shoulder, it is really not fireforming. Shooting new 243 brass in a 243 chamber, then FL sizing after, really is not a big deal. I have had some fantastic loads with new brass that held after being once fired. The speed up on a new barrel throws more people for a loop than once fired brass.

Thanks, lots of great input and info. I have been hand loading for over 25 years but here on the east coast a long shot is 500 yards. I have always looked at my es and sd but they never made much difference as long as they were reasonable. Their is a 1000 yard range going in close to me and I plan to join and extend my range and practice much more. I know you guys that shoot seriously long range have probably more finely tuned your loading techniques and methods. Don't get me wrong, I have always tried to get the best load I can but I'm sure that a good load at 500 isn't the same as a good load at 1000.

When you join a 1000 yard club find a mentor it will save you so much time frustration and money. I have found even at the top levels of compatition match shooting every body will extend a hand to help out. It's an amazing community. Now as far as the op. I call this the new barrel paradox. There is no one answer either way but one of 3 things will happen. Your load stays good in the end eventually. It needs raised a little or it needs lowered. There all done. I didn't help at all. But now for why it happens. New brass is small. New barrels are tight and slower. And then it all shifts. So your new brass tight slow barrel is tuned great but then something happens. You load fire formed brass that has more volume and it shoots slower. Tune is off. Raise powder tune is restored. Barrel speeds up and tune is off. Lower powder tune is restored. That's the progression. Since everything has variables there is no hard rule. But I find at the end of break in loads are close to same or slightly lower to remain in tune. Hope that helps. Others have said basically the same thing but I gave it a stupid name if that helps.
Shep

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okie man said:

I personally give it a full prep! Size, trim, uniform primer pockets then load with a middle of road charge. Then after a first firing I size and trim and start load development with it!

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Anneal??????? When does this come in to the process?

After 3 firings , sometimes 2 . I go buy feel, anytime I feel either sizing/expanding force change it's because it's getting harder or thicker around the neck area. Also when you start having cases become difficult to chamber after sizing. Everyone does check every case for proper fit before proceeding with loading right?

I rarely ever do any prep to new brass. I normally will run an expander mandrel through all the necks to work out any kinks encountered on the shipping journey. I will do semi load work and u can see where promising areas are to further explore with new brass. Things do change as the case capacity changes with brass growth but new brass can by all means tell u a very good place to start.

There are things to consider that I know are contrary to common notions.
1. New brass poorly represents YOUR cartridge, that you form in YOUR chamber.
With firing, even once, brass is forever changed, and cannot ever be what it was again.
FL sizing makes no difference about that.
2. Your dimensionally stable brass fits your chamber differently. The clearances are not the same, and the upsized/downsized brass grain has changed spring back from new condition.
3. Given changed H20 capacity, and changed case hardness, and changed chamber fit, pressure from a given powder load will change. Barrel timing will change.
Why chase change?
4. The goal should be to take your cases to stable(unchanging) as efficiently as possible. THEN, work methodically towards a best load.
If losing sleep over extra shooting in this, then test seating and do primer swaps while fire forming. Barrel break-in, scope sighting, shooting the bull with friends, etc.

And consider whether you really need 100 cases at all.
I've shot out several barrels, and killed hundreds of groundhogs, with the same 50 cases. Yeah, I fired an extra ~150 shots with the first barrel I suppose. But I didn't chase my tail firing so much to find a great load. That was easy.
Can't say for sure, but it's possible that I didn't 'waste' anything with this approach.