Why Doesn't Berger make a Bonded Bullet??

BigSky112 said:

In my experience, not all Berger's are created equally. I had good luck with a 190 VLD in a 30 cal. But issues I've had are with the 140 VLD in a 6.5. It destroys way too much of exactly what I harvest the animal for MEAT ! 3 times now I've had the 140 grenade and ruin some portion of the meat from tip to tail. All 3 kills were in the 600 yrd range. But the 130 gr 6.5 performs just like the 190's. My thoughts are it has to do with length, weight & caliber. It seems the jackets are not the same thickness on the 140's as the 130's or maybe tip design, I'm not a ballistics engineer but I can easily spot poor performance from one bullet to another.

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I would find that an odd one, I've shot a ton of 140 VLD's through deer and elk and I've never been able to get one caught in a deer and only a few in elk, very, very even predictable performance across three different barrels. I have seen one case where the barrel was just shot out and rough as heck and I switched to a 140 Match and instantly saw the same performance in that rifle as I was getting in mine with 140 Hunting.

Ingwe said:

I give you allot of credit for posting the above with the crowd here. Even with the above scenario posted, I bet that some guys here will STILL defend Berger's even for Grizzly Bear.

Again I'm not totally crapping on Berger's, I just think that people should overlook the hype and use Berger's for what they are designed to do...fly accurately, efficiently with super high BC, then strike an animal and fragment.

I can't think of a WORSE bullet for Grizzly.

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Hornady was straight forward enough to tell me not to use the ELD-X on brown bear. Some times, there is no replacement for the plain jane Partition and A-Frame. They, just, work.

BoomFlop said:

I find this post super funny!

When someone posts about a short range bullet, everyone talks about this being a long range forum.

When someone asks about a long range bullet, everyone talks about short range.

OMG, too dang funny!

Sorry....back at er boys!

Steve

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Spot on my friend!

I am not crapping on Bergers, either. Those who like them, and have had a lot of success with them should just carry on. I have other preferences, and use them with great success, so there is where I will stay. After all, I believe that every hunter's goal should be a quick, humane kill. If you are reaching that goal consistently, no more is required. Dave.

If there was one perfect bullet, then no other bullets would be sold!
Everyone is going to have opinions and these are based on personal preferences, experience and bias towards their own thoughts, as well as the type of shooting/hunting they do.
I have hunted and shot thousands of animals with cup and core bullets and been very happy with their results, so long as the right weight of bullet matches the velocity at impact. I still use Sierra in my .375 H&H and my .308 for some species, although I prefer bonded bullets for the bigger/tougher game or short range stuff.
I use Bergers for the long range stuff and for when shooting needs accuracy over anything else (head shots), but prefer AB or Partitions for general shooting at animals that bite back, big boned or are tough

So, pardon me I've never used Bergers, but we are supposed to believe that a bullet designed to expand at minimal velocity at distance can penetrate an elk shoulder at close range. Even out penetrate a monolithic copper bullet. Sounds too good to be true. And Accubonds designed to retain ~70% of their weight blow up on impact. Hmmm.

cajun said:

So, pardon me I've never used Bergers, but we are supposed to believe that a bullet designed to expand at minimal velocity at distance can penetrate an elk shoulder at close range. Even out penetrate a monolithic copper bullet. Sounds too good to be true. And Accubonds designed to retain ~70% of their weight blow up on impact. Hmmm.

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Be sure to leave milk and cookies for Santa! And, I heard that, he's using Unicorns to pull the sleigh this year! memtb

cajun said:

So, pardon me I've never used Bergers, but we are supposed to believe that a bullet designed to expand at minimal velocity at distance can penetrate an elk shoulder at close range. Even out penetrate a monolithic copper bullet. Sounds too good to be true. And Accubonds designed to retain ~70% of their weight blow up on impact. Hmmm.

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YES! They can do all of the above and more

I have been making precision projectiles since 1960's using J4 jackets. I understand the original four owners who started the jacket business all came from Sierra and had names starting with J, hence the J4 brand. The company seemed to change their policy numerous times but some years later gave sole agency to a projectile maker named Walt Berger who acquired the business from one of the remaining J's.
The jackets were very precise, quoting 2/10's thou concentricity 1/16th of an inch up from the base. That's what the business is founded on, supply of precise tackets and projectiles. Barrels shot with J4's seem to copper foul less so I wouldn't like to see them change.

cajun said:

So, pardon me I've never used Bergers, but we are supposed to believe that a bullet designed to expand at minimal velocity at distance can penetrate an elk shoulder at close range. Even out penetrate a monolithic copper bullet. Sounds too good to be true. And Accubonds designed to retain ~70% of their weight blow up on impact. Hmmm.

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It's about physics, if a bullet has a large frontal diameter it needs more mass behind it to keep the ability to penetrate, if another bullet is able to loose the frontal diameter AND has mass to spare it will out penetrate an on side hit then continue to mushroom and cause damage continuing on.
I've watched several elk take a 180 accubond dead center of the shoulder with a 300 and the bullet mushroomed big and early and blew down to the point it did not have the momentum to get through, I've watch a lot of 230 and 215 Berger's on the same shot and have yet to see one not get into the vital.
The Hammer bullet is a mono that works by design for penetration by getting ride of the frontal area and getting small and blunt and then retains it's momentum, Barnes are not designed to function like this.
You also have the mechanism of opening, OTM bullet open by hydraulic forcing the tip open of of then expansion can start so that's where the normal few inches of penetration comes when things are normal vs a Accubond that is opening and loosing momentum the second it hits hide then has to plow through muscle and bone.

I am thankful "we" have plenty of bullet choices to choose from. My personal preference for my hunting needs is the Berger bullet and similar design like the Matrix.

memtb said:

Be sure to leave milk and cookies for Santa! And, I heard that, he's using Unicorns to pull the sleigh this year! memtb

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Gotta love the fan boys who won't even test and try to understand the how and why something works.
I have shelves full of Barnes, Berger, Hornady, Matrix, Hammer some Swifts just to name some and then I have boxes of hand made custom bullets designs, I'm not afraid of loading and shooting bullet to figure something out, I'm really just interested in terminal performance and what ever I shoot that give me that works, it could be Barnes, Hammer, Berger or something else, maybe these new Atips will up the playing field, don't know!!

Overkill338 said:

Well, I believe Berger was just target bullets from the start. Then some person shot a game animal with one, and it dropped in its tracks. So Berger in turn said "oh yeah, we knew that would happen, it's a hybrid hunting bullet. We meant for it to do that!" . Then more and more people kept buying them, and kept shooting game with these oversized Varmint bullets. That's the story

Me personally, I prefer the AB or Partition. I'm trying the TTSX this year. I just can't put my Hope's behind a bullet that blows apart. They do shoot phenomenally well!

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Call Gunwerks and talk to Arron about it
Way back when John Burns was with Arron they had to beg Walt to come see how his bullets worked on game. Walt was on TV and was saying he thought it was a bad idea. Then they had piles of data to show him.
Eld-x are not all they cracked up to be.
( Saying in general)
It's funny to me in this darn age cell phones, laptops, iPads, tablets and computers and people still don't know the facts of things.

I say shoot Nosler shoot Sierra and Hornady shoot whatever makes you happy That means there'll be more Berger bullets for me.
To be honest I would like to have a Berger bullet fail,That way I can see what others are talking about I'll have two or three more in my gun waiting to make sure the animal falls

cajun said:

....I've never used Bergers, but we are supposed to believe that a bullet designed to expand at minimal velocity at distance can penetrate an elk shoulder at close range. Even out penetrate a monolithic copper bullet.... Accubonds designed to retain ~70% of their weight blow up on impact.......,

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Using only brand name is over simplification. Not all mono's are created the same. Variables such as weight, jacket thickness, and the point we are looking at that thickness, hollow point size, tipped or not, material hardness, stability at impact, all need to be factored in.