Stock configuration

Personal preference and acclimation plays a big role in choice. I use both styles. IMO, the main differences of the stock design has to do with ergonomics. If you are going to be spending a lot of time shooting in the prone, sttting,kneeling positions, the vertical grip enables a more comfortable elbow down position that results a "straight" wrist position. Maintaining a straight wrist supports accurate shooting and results in greater comfort/less fatigue, along with better control of the rifle in terms of applying rearward pressure from prone or when the elbow is supported by the knee/leg when sitting to kneeling. For the more upright shooting positions tree stand, shooting sticks, off-hand, where the shooter is accustomed to a horizontal elbow, the curved/pistol grip with less angle allows for more comfortable, straighter(wrist/body) shooting position, that tends to be a faster and more natural ergonomically. This is why you see the straight/open grips on the older military designs(ie Garand, Springfield, etc) and the handy lever actions. Of course it can come down to what you are used to. If you spent most of your life shooting an AR15 platform, shooting elbow down, this design may feel more natural to you. I personally can shoot well using either from varied positions.....but....If I'm in the Wyoming foothills hunting deer and antelope I'm more comfortable with my vertical grip where 80% of my shooting is prone, or elbow supported, sitting. Later season hunting in the North woods from stands or blinds, the standard pistol grip feels and handles much better.......IMO.

Great discussion. Lightweight rifle for a tree stand? Short handy weighing perhaps 8-10 lbs would be fine.To me an important factor for tree stand shooting is the short rifle so you are not banging it on things as you reposition yourself for a shot.

As I read this thread I kept thinking of one factor that was missing then Cody said it. CHEEK WELD. Many stocks are still produced for 1" scopes with 40-42 mm front objectives. They don't work well with higher mounts. While there are many solutions to raise the height of the stock I prefer to have the stock's shape built in.

There is another thing that can be addressed which is how your trigger hand fits the stock. Some stocks have palm swells, vertical grips, curved grips etc. Some are comfortable in a variety of positions some are not.

As for thumbholes....most of them are stocks with a hole for the thumb nothing more. The originator of the Thumbhole is in Tucson. Harry Lawson Co. I knew the late Harry and visit with his son Randy often. Their thumbhole is ergonomically different. All weight is removed leaving a strong wooden stock. The grip is canted so the wrist is in a more comfortable position. The entire stock is designed to deal with recoil.

John Lazzaroni had Randy design two stocks for him which are produced by McMillan. One is the Lawson thumbhole.
Here is a link showing the Lazzaroni McMillan thumbhole:

https://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifle-stocks/hunting-stocks-lazzeroni-thumbhole-sporter/

The other stock is called the Lazzaroni Sporter is another stock with excellent ergonomics. Both were designed to handle recoil but have a feel that is unique.

https://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifle-stocks/hunting-stocks-lazzeroni-sporter/

I realize I am almost off topic. FYI the Lawson thumbhole custom rifle has a crossbolt safety so the shooter doesn't have to relocate the trigger hand to flip off the safety.
Should anyone want more information Lawson's custom shop where they build custom wood thumbholes including laminate, feel free to PM me.

Ross

lancetkenyon said:

What do you consider "heavy"?
My EH1 and EH2 weigh 26oz each.

All depends on personal preference. I like a tactical style shape myself. I have 8 tactical style stocks.
EH1
EH1
EH2
PRS2
PRS2
PRS2
Game Scout
Game Warden adjustable

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I have a manners EH 1 carbon with the aluminum bedding block myself I love it

I guess my biggest question is vertical grip vs. traditional. I have never owned nor shot a vertical grip rifle so I don't know how to compare. And, no, I don't know anyone with such a rifle. I'm just trying to mine this wealth of knowledge before spending $600.00. Again, thank you.

willtim said:

I guess my biggest question is vertical grip vs. traditional. I have never owned nor shot a vertical grip rifle so I don't know how to compare. And, no, I don't know anyone with such a rifle. I'm just trying to mine this wealth of knowledge before spending $600.00. Again, thank you.

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Go to a scheels, cabelas, or other store with a large firearm selection and ask if they have any rifles with a verticle style grip. I know that a lot of the cabelas have some custom rifles in their used department with manners/mcmillan and other tactical style stocks. The Manners EH-1 is my favorite, to me personally it just feels like it fills all the voids created by a sporter stock, giving me more surface area on the rifle, thus making me feel more stable in any position, including off hand. That is just my opinion though, I competed in 4-H in all disciplines for 9 years and developed my personal preferences for rifles in 4 position slow fire precision shooting.

willtim said:

What are the advantages/disadvantages of a sporting stock vs. a tactical stock (vertical grip)? I am planning my next build. It will be a trued Remington short action with a 20 inch Bartlein 3b fluted barrel. Either .243 Win (my heart wants) or 7mm-08 Rem (my brain says). Use will be 80% tree stand hunting for whitetail. I am not a big guy (5'8'', 160 pounds) and want a light handling rifle. Thanks for your advice.

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IMO, sporting stocks handle better in the hand. The smaller forend and semi-horizontal section of the grip is much easier to manipulate when moving around in the field.

The vertical grip is better in the shooting position, especially off a rest or bipod.

You need to swing down to the local big gun store and make your choice by feel. Pay attention to where you are pointing the rifle when handling.

dfanonymous said:

I'm just going to divide this between sporter stock and heavy modular stock as I can't say a vertical grip is "tactical."

Heavy modular stock-
Pros:
Weight allows better recoil management
Good ones can be adjustable
Often is pillared or in general allows better action screw torque
Can be modular depending on brand and model

Cons:
Heavy/ier
Might not need modularity
More expensive
Some people don't know how to shoot with a vertical grip believe it or not. They grip it like an ar15 and introduce unnecessary hand torq

Sporter-
Pros:
Cheaper
Light weight


Cons:
Cheaper
Not modular usually
Sometimes has more flex in stock.

Lastly, I vote the 7mm-08. Reason is you can pretty much use it for all of North America at more various ranges. Gives you options for later, if you decide to change the build.

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Nicely said!

with everyone wanting a picatiny rail base 95%of the stocks don't fit if you mount the gun with your eyes closed and then open them you will be looking into the base so to fix this problem you need a ajustable comb or the stock maker's need to make stocks with higher combs or the rails don't need to be 3/8 of inch tall

I am going to make this simple.. what fits you best? what comb fits you, what length of pull, what fore-end fits your hand, the only advantage any stock has over any other stock is FIT. I have taken Remington stocks off and sanded the cheek pieces off so I my face to sit right on the stock and get a good sight picture. (338 Win Mag) . I asked Chet B. to take the cheek piece off one of his stocks so I could use it on my Win 70 270 Win. It was a dream to shoot. The reason; it fit me.
to fit a stock takes knowledge on you have, how you hold your hand for a comfortable trigger press, length of pull is normally a very personal thing. how you are built will help determine how your stock should be built. I once had this gun that came into the shop the guy was complaining about it pummeling him. it was a 7X57 Remington 700. I thought this was very odd and I started making sure his stock fit him.. it was all messed up. I shouldered the rifle and it felt very comfortable. then I knew it would never fit him. I grabbed an old stock out of the barrel and put the stock on his gun, then went to the range.. he was smiling ear to ear. the stock was short enough for him, it was not slipping off his shoulder in recoil, the fore-end was small enough for his hand, the wrist was smaller than the one he came in with, and he still needed about 5/8" more on the length but it was not nearly as bad as the original stock.
as I said before.. what ever fits you better is the one in the end you will be happy with.
For your purpose, I would say that a Rem 7, 7-08, well fitted Chet Brown stock, and some light glass might serve you well.

I want to thank everybody for all of the great advice. I am going to stay with a sporter style stock as I can't find a reason to change. It is what I grew up with and always used. I really like the AG Composite Privateer. Also, I think I'll stay with 7mm-08 and build it to shoot 120-140 grain bullets.

I would buy a Barret Fieldcraft with a 20" tube in your caliber choice and throw the extra money you saved from not building at a better quality scope.Fieldcrafts are light and stupid accurate right out of the box.