Bigger is better theory or truth?

jmcmath said:
Whitetails don't like dying and I eat shoulders. They can run for a minute, throw a big bullet and follow the buckets.
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Generally true and I do love all of a deer, but there have been a few times hunting near thick cut-overs and in small dries surrounded by swampy tickets, running 50 or more yards could mean a lost animal or a incredibly difficult retrieval at best.
 
If you can place a good bullet in the right place your going to kill that animal cleanly. When the distance increases, more variables come into play. No one can read ALL of the wind between you and the game. We NEED all the help we can get from BC and speed. Have you ever missed a target at long range because you missed the wind call? Bigger would have helped that. And if we are being honest, most of us dont practice enough on learning to read wind. Its not about how much gun it takes to kill.
 
Mentioned before is the SST, this is an awesome bullet when used correctly.

The 139gr on the 7mm-08 is a fast killer, most are DRT kills.

For the 7mm Rem Mag the 154gr SST works great but the 162gr is a whole different ball game, fast killer indeed.

Bullet placement is #1 thing, but the bullet also plays a large role. I've seen partitions pencil through when no bone or hard muscle is hit, I put 3 rounds through the lungs of a coues deer for it to go down, literally pencil size holes.

Softer bullets drop their energy inside the animal and sometimes dont exit, but usually those animals dont go far if they even go anywhere.

Shoulder shots is a way to anchor an animal right away, but there goes a large chunk of meat. Lung shots with the right bullet will also drop the animal, but a tough bullet will delay death a bit and in some cases cause a lost animal.

Some light bullets will blow up at magnum speeds so heavier is better. For Mono's is best to use lighter that get pushed faster to ensure expansion

After all that talk, it simply depends on what bullet we pick, and which ever we choose we must do our best to put it where it's supposed to go.

Just my .02
 
Alex Wheeler said:
If you can place a good bullet in the right place your going to kill that animal cleanly. When the distance increases, more variables come into play. No one can read ALL of the wind between you and the game. We NEED all the help we can get from BC and speed. Have you ever missed a target at long range because you missed the wind call? Bigger would have helped that. And if we are being honest, most of us dont practice enough on learning to read wind. Its not about how much gun it takes to kill.
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I find wind reading such a perishable skill. If I don't shoot for a cpl weeks then it's seems I'm out of tune with making my wind calls. And realistically, some situations you just need to spot ur miss and correct. But when I'm on with making my wind calls I've been shooting every day a few long range shots and judging my performance harshly
 
BoomFlop said:
Varmint Hunter
The 162 gr Amax held up to the STW velocity even on the whitetail shoulder?
ive been considering the Hornady 168 gr ELDm Superformance but was worried the lightly constructed bullet wouldn't hold up even at 308 Win velocity of mid to upper 2700 range.
Steve
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Yes - The 162 A-Max performed quite well on whitetail shoulder shots. Probably not much different then a Berger bullet. The bullets dropped whitetails like a hammer but did not exit, if that matters. Broadside hits in the lungs often exited but not always. Either way, deer died quickly when hit with an A-Max bullet at high velocity. Deer were killed from 100yds to about 450yds.
 
If DRT results is what u are after on whitetail then from my experience bullet placement is the most important factor. Behind the shoulder and they run 99% of the time. High shoulder shot turns the lights out on the spot
 
Varmint Hunter's experiences mirror mine but using 140gn A-Max in 6.5-284 Norma. I swore by that bullet and was a little discouraged when Hornady "updated" them. I have since used both the 143gn ELD-X and 147gn ELD-M (once) with success.
I tried the 156gn Berger a couple of weekends ago (same load data as 147gn) and was surprised and very happy. Superbly accurate and precise in my 28" LW and now ......waiting for the right moment to try on local whitetail(s).
 
The lesson I learned 35 years ago is "speed kills"! I've hunted with the 243, 308, 6.5 CM, 7 RM and 25-06. Of those calibers and many deer nothing drops deer like the 25-06 and the 7 mag. The mag however will destroy more meat. The downside is that both of those stellar calibers require long actions and long barrels which can be cumbersome in the field. I believed that the 25 WSSM was the answer but apparently I was alone!
 
Jeremy R Snyder said:
Decided to go for a walk with my son today for a squirel hunt. I relearned a lesson I had taught myself long ago. My son was using his .22lr and I brought a 17 hornet. He had hit 3 squirrels right where he should have and all 3 were drt so to speak. 17 hornet is 3 times what a 22lr is, faster speed, more kinetic energy, heavier projectile.... on and on. I hit 2 squirrels right where I should have and they both were able to make it up a tree before expiring and falling out. So my lesson I learned when I was younger hit me hard again, first deer rifle was a tikka t3 in 30-06, shooting 150 grain factory hornady ammo. I shot a lot of deer with that gun and not 1 of them ever drt. They all managed to leave a nice blood trail, some 30 yards, some made it over 100 yards. This stayed true with heavier ammo as well, went up to 165's then 180's, same results. Did the caliber do the job, yup everytime but was it the best option, not in my eyes.
My next gun was a 243, shooting 95 grain hornady factory ammo sst. I never had a deer move after a good hit. That being said if I hit a little farther back then intended I still had a dead deer but it was a lot like the 30-06 results, run and then drop. Next gun was a 7mm08, better results then the 30-06 and the 243 for the most part, just found the 7mm08 is more forgiving if you dont hit exactly where you intended to but as far as the drt is concerned the 243 still takes the cake. So my conclusion is the right round is crucial for the cleanest kill which to me means its over as fast as possible. A round that transfers 100 percent of its energy does not punch through but stays in the animal and if placed correctly has better results imo. Why do most hunters say bigger is better when my field results and studies have proved the exact opposite? Anyone else have some food for thought on this?
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I wouldn't dispute your results, as they are what they are, but all chest shot deer ( Fallow deer, as im in the UK) hit with my 300 Win Mag have been poleaxed / drt. That's using either 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips, or Berger 230 OTM bullets, at any distance.
It'll be interesting to hear other people's experiences.
Having said that, I generally go for head or neck shots within 300 yards.
 
I use a 410 shot gun on tree rats. Not much there in the first place so no point in vaporizing them. My hunting partner makes excellent squirrel stew.
 
I have always felt its more than just a caliber size that kills well but construction of the bullet and proper placement.
When I switched from factory loads to reloads where I could use a better constructed bullet every animal went down and stayed down while factory loads were 50/50.
In the late 60's I started reloading and used the Nosler Partition but they were a bit more expensive but the results were that any animal I shot was drt 99% of the time if the shot was proper.
Caliber is a personal choice but a quality bullet is the most important part of reloading in my opinion and the part that does the damage.
Just my 2 cents
Old Rooster
 
crowduster said:
Every squirrel I shot with my .17AH was missing parts and was DRT. The 20gr vmax was explosive. You must have used a bullet that didn't want expand.
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Absolutely correct, I was using a 25 grain hp I load for fox and Bobcat. Just brought it out cause I find practicing on smaller game helps a lot when it comes time for the larger game! I have 20 grain vmax but they tend to splash on the cats and fox so switched to 25hp. Great point though!
 
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