Help diagnosing these groups/my fundamentals

sw282 said:

Well stated Bravo... Also, To confirm if its the gun/ammo or the shooter simply let someone else shoot your gun. Preferably a good Marksman

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Yep, we have to do this often.
First thing guys want to do is blame the equipment.

Bravo 4 said:

Yep, we have to do this often.
First thing guys want to do is blame the equipment.

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I'm pretty sure it's my shooting at this point. Awesome write up, thanks. I cannot spot my shots with my 300 and will notice the rifle recoil to one side or the other, despite my best efforts. Will pay more attention to the bag/bipod, great points, very helpful

Do U have this same issue with small calibers? Magnums often exaggerate imperfections in form because of the more significant recoil impulse. I bet your problem is coming from bag, bipod, shooter relationship. That perfect straight back recoil impulse is easy to achieve at the range but is much harder to duplicate in real world conditions and takes a little more attention.

Remmy700 said:

Do U have this same issue with small calibers? Magnums often exaggerate imperfections in form because of the more significant recoil impulse. I bet your problem is coming from bag, bipod, shooter relationship. That perfect straight back recoil impulse is easy to achieve at the range but is much harder to duplicate in real world conditions and takes a little more attention.

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I think you are correct. I did not have this issue with my .308

What's the easy answer? More consistent cheek weld and bag pressure?

Body position feels good, trigger squeeze and follow through feel good, rifle is solid in the shoulder, rifle still bucks pretty wild

This is just my opinion but I have noticed to firm of a bipod load up and keeping to much shoulder pressure causes that problem. When the rifle recoils it has no where to go because of such firm shoulder pressure from the shooter and it's going to go somewhere and that is where u usually get that hop. Try less shoulder pressure, and let the rifle free recoil. Again this is just my opinion brother everyone has their method.

I agree with muscling the bipod.

Remmy700 said:

This is just my opinion but I have noticed to firm of a bipod load up and keeping to much shoulder pressure causes that problem. When the rifle recoils it has no where to go because of such firm shoulder pressure from the shooter and it's going to go somewhere and that is where u usually get that hop. Try less shoulder pressure, and let the rifle free recoil. Again this is just my opinion brother everyone has their method.

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I tend to do the opposite with harder recoiling rifles, also like the spiked feet and believe they help.
Whatever you do, do it consistently and less problems shall appear.

Bravo 4 said:

I tend to do the opposite with harder recoiling rifles, also like the spiked feet and believe they help.
Whatever you do, do it consistently and less problems shall appear.

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I agree, the only way I've been able to keep this thing even close to on target to spot shots is a firm load on the bipod....I guess the consistency is my problem. It's a 7# rifle with a pretty warm load (10# with my schmidt and rings)...recoil management isnt easy for me on this gun.

I also get up off of the rifle, take notes. Etc between shots sometimes, so that is probably not helping my consistency. Tough to lay there 5+ minutes to let the barrel cool...trying to dial this thing in cold bore.

I have noticed a difference in the rear bag/stock with the rear sling keeper. If it is dragging on the bag under recoil, it can cause fliers.

Long drag/ hooking the bag=Vertical movement in the barrel vice straight back on the bag.

Now I take the rear sling keeper off.

Oh lawdy, the bane of my existence, the 3/2 double group. I wish I could tell you exactly how cure it but I still suffer from it, especially with hand guns. It's definitely not the load, it's something you (we!) are doing but figuring it out can drive you to drink!

I know each rifle can be different, especially in the way they like to be held. I have a couple do great with free recoil and more that I nearly have lay on to get them to shoot the way I want. Hard onto the shoulder, left hand holding the barrel into the front bag and a death grip with the right hand... the only thing I can move is my trigger finger. Thing is, when I do things wrong, the two groups are consistently in the same place! Arrrrrgh! It can be very frustrating dealing with it and as far as I can tell, the only way to beat it is try different holds - and keep detailed notes! And when things get really bad, put everything up and go have a beer! Then try again later.
Cheers,
crkckr

Recoil management.

Recoil management, consistently applied fundamentals, constant hold and fallow thru, also verify your diopter and paralax is correctly adjusted.the last one can cause similar issues.good luck

Bravo 4 knows his stuff and is spot on. Only thing I can add is thoughts on recoil. Since it doesn't happen with his .308 seems obvious to several folks above that the rifle is inconsistent in recoiling. Have to ask: Does this thing have a brake on it? The good ones help a lot to not only lower recoil, but control muzzle rise, and help the gun to recoil more inline with itself. Shouldn't matter with perfect form, but I swear it does with good form.

Ya'll are awesome. At least this gives me co evidence it's not my reloading or the rifle.

Any favorite links, articles, videos etc that address some good rear bag techniques?

I watch Frank's videos on the hide, some good ones on bipods and follow through, and I think hes doing one soon on rear bags...

Would like to take a course at some point, but it's not in the cards tilll next summer. What's the proper technique for bag shooting? I have I traust rear bag...a good squeeze on the rear bag, a good shoulder into the rifle and some firm cheek pressure to sandwhich the rifle between the bag and cheek?