Brass Prep for long range accuracy

Orange Dust said:

I size without an expander. Expand with a sinclair neck expander die. I use redding and forster dies. Skim turn necks. You can get very little runout this way with a standard press, riviling hand dies even.

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Yes. I have turned necks but saw no improvement. I have 3 rifles. 338on 279 wan and a 243 all are sub moa. Like .5 that is as good as,I can shoot. The guns are better than I am.

Steve Sheasly said:

Full length sizing is hard on brass and does not allow for a snug fit in the chamber. With virgin brass I am 2moa or 20 inches off at 1 thousand yards

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If you know how to FL size it works just fine. As far as "hard on brass", I have brass in various rifles that have 10+ loads on them and still going strong. 6.5SLR, 7RM, .300RUM all have lasted just fine. It is overworking them that leads to premature brass failure.

Correctly FL sized brass is different than virgin brass. But even fire forming loads can be made to shoot very accurately.

Fellas, in your experiences, does fire-formed brass have a different POI than new brass?

Ingwe said:

Fellas, in your experiences, does fire-formed brass have a different POI than new brass?

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At 1000 yards? It very well could depending on the virgin brass dimensions. In cases like the 7RM, .300WM, etc., it seems like the headspacing is very short on virgin cases. Like .014"-.020" shorter than fired cases. I have seen 2.007" for new brass in a 7RM, and 2.121" fired using a .420" comp in a digital caliper. Bumping shoulders back .002" to 2.119" will increase case capacity over virgin.

Ingwe said:

Fellas, in your experiences, does fire-formed brass have a different POI than new brass?

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Fire formed brass will reduce a standard deviation or spread Basically you get better accuracy not a significant vertical difference just better groups.

Steve Sheasly said:

Yes. I have turned necks but saw no improvement. I have 3 rifles. 338on 279 wan and a 243 all are sub moa. Like .5 that is as good as,I can shoot. The guns are better than I am.

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Sorry for two thumb typing. A 338 lapua magnum, 270 WSM and a .243.

lancetkenyon said:

If you know how to FL size it works just fine. As far as "hard on brass", I have brass in various rifles that have 10+ loads on them and still going strong. 6.5SLR, 7RM, .300RUM all have lasted just fine. It is overworking them that leads to premature brass failure.

Correctly FL sized brass is different than virgin brass. But even fire forming loads can be made to shoot very accurately.

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Your first sentence is obviously true. Second does not make sense to me. Fire formed brass ---brass fire formed,to a,specific chamber ---- in my experience is always more accurate. A bit stiff to eject sometimes after 7 or so firings but in my experience much more accurate. The projectile is aligned with the center of the bore. Not sitting a few thou low so when it engages the lands it comes out more concentric more stable increasing accuracy. I hope I explained that adequately.

I am not saying this is always true. But, it happens often.

6.5SS fire forming loads. Completely changing a case shape.



As for virgin brass loads...

Steve Sheasly said:

Lapua comes annealed. I do anneal Nosler after 3 firings. Forgot to add that. Thanks

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All brass comes annealed. Its just that some companies polish after annealing.

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Steve Sheasly said:

Do what works. My last,group at 1k was 2inside inches. Cleans the carbon ofd,of the neck so tumbling time,is reduced. Also cleans powder,residue. Nylon does not remove the residue from the neck well I have nylon. One time,in and out. Out,of 20 cases I will remove 3 or 4 grains of uncombustable junk. I weiged it once.

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Carbon inside the neck is your friend.

Steve,
Pretty much don't do most of those things either. However would like to see a good picture of that camper in your avatar.

Ingwe said:

Fellas, in your experiences, does fire-formed brass have a different POI than new brass?

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Yes would be the short answer.
Will most shooters notices the difference especially at shorter ranges. No
With that being said I only shoot to 700 yards but watch the chronograph and I see the change in pressure and speed. That's been my experience anyway.


Fire formed brass should be a different pressure and line up in the chamber better than none fire formed. I use to only neck size but after a few firing they would get a little sticky. Now I just bump everything back around .002 th. Or just enough to where the bolt closes easy. For my purpose and hunting I like this better.

While my reloading method is quite different then yours, nothing speaks louder than results. Five inch groups at 1,000 yds speak for themselves.
Nice work.