Duplicate 7-08 in a smaller bore?

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ntsqd

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Just for discussion's sake let's say I/we wanted to duplicate 7-08 performance in the 140gr. - 150gr. bullet range, in a .25 or 6.5 mm bore. That is to say same bullet weight(s) at the same velocity(ies). I'm assuming that such a heavy in .25 could be found and included it so as to not reject it w/o due consideration. I'm thinking that the slightly smaller bore at the same bullet mass will force an even better BC, which I expect to translate into less wind drift. Our range is notorious for a L-R cross wind of varying strength.

The targets are steel and they have to be knocked off their stand. A 140gr. 7-08 is reportedly just about minimum to do this at the max distance of our local range (~600yds), IF the shooter does his/her part. Shooter is moderately recoil sensitive and weighs 110 lbs. max, so the 6.5/.378 Wby is not a contender for consideration. :)

A cursory glance at loads for the wunderkind 6.5 shows it's a little slow in comparison. What is real world? What other .25 or 6.5 calibers should I be looking at? Would prefer to stay in a short action if possible. Don't really need to surpass the 7-08 performance, merely equal it in a smaller bore and with the same bullet mass.
 
What about using a lighter bullet weight in the 7-08? A 100 grain or 125-130 grain bullet weights?
I don't see how a 150 grain bullet from a .264 caliber can be less recoil that a 150 grain bullet from a .284 caliber using the same case (eg: .260 Remington and 7-08 Remington), with the same weight rifle.

Good luck

Jerry
 
Not trying to reduce recoil. Trying to reduce wind drift and increase downrange energy from the same recoil. 140's @ the 7-08's MV is the energy required to knock the targets over. Higher BC will obviously carry more energy downrange, but is it enough to offset a lighter bullet?
 
ntsqd said:
Not trying to reduce recoil. Trying to reduce wind drift and increase downrange energy from the same recoil. 140's @ the 7-08's MV is the energy required to knock the targets over. Higher BC will obviously carry more energy downrange, but is it enough to offset a lighter bullet?
Click to expand...

A .260 or 6.5 Creed does exactly this. A higher BC bullet the same weight at 2850. Less drift, less drop, same recoil, more energy.
 
When I looked at load tables the 6.5 CM was giving up 100 or more MV-FPS to the 7-08. But, that was load tables, not real world. Which is partly why my questions.

Have to take a look at the .260, since it was derived with the same approach as the 7-08 I'm more hopeful for it.
 
I think others are right this is exactly what the 6.5 creed made its name doing.
It think if you loaded the 140-147 eld in lapua brass you should be fine.
 
My 6.5s run a 140 ELD-M at 2920 from a 30" Bartlien and at 2810 from a 20" proof with no pressure sign using RL26. Even the normal load everyone used with H4350 should run a 140 at 2800-2850 in most guns. Anything that a standard load with a 7mm-08 can do can be done with a Creed. I ran .260 or .260AI for years and now that there is quality brass available for the Creed I switched over to that. It's shorter case let's you stretch the bullet out longer and still fit in the magazine.
 
This would be a Hunter class rifle build shouldered by someone of petite stature, so 22" is about as long as it's likely to get.

Again, just looking at, for instance, Nosler load data, their indicated most accurate load for 7-08 140gr. is 2760 FPS, for .260 140gr. is 2655 FPS, and for 6.5 CM 140gr is 2392 FPS. What complicates things is that their test barrels are 26" (7-08), 24" (.260), & 24" (6.5 CM), so not exactly apples to apples. If you back out some velocity for those extra 2" of 7-08 barrel the .260 is still looking like the better match.

Thank you all!
 
ntsqd said:
Just for discussion's sake let's say I/we wanted to duplicate 7-08 performance in the 140gr. - 150gr. bullet range, in a .25 or 6.5 mm bore. That is to say same bullet weight(s) at the same velocity(ies). I'm assuming that such a heavy in .25 could be found and included it so as to not reject it w/o due consideration. I'm thinking that the slightly smaller bore at the same bullet mass will force an even better BC, which I expect to translate into less wind drift. Our range is notorious for a L-R cross wind of varying strength.

The targets are steel and they have to be knocked off their stand. A 140gr. 7-08 is reportedly just about minimum to do this at the max distance of our local range (~600yds), IF the shooter does his/her part. Shooter is moderately recoil sensitive and weighs 110 lbs. max, so the 6.5/.378 Wby is not a contender for consideration. :)

A cursory glance at loads for the wunderkind 6.5 shows it's a little slow in comparison. What is real world? What other .25 or 6.5 calibers should I be looking at? Would prefer to stay in a short action if possible. Don't really need to surpass the 7-08 performance, merely equal it in a smaller bore and with the same bullet mass.
Click to expand...


The 260 AI will duplicate or slightly exceed the 7/08 velocities with the right barrel length and free bore.

2850 to 2900 ft/sec velocities using a 140 grain bullet are hard to reach for the 7/08. The 260 (AI) can do 2900+ ft/sec using the 140 grain bullets.

But if you AI the 7/08 the advantage goes back to the 7/08 AI over the 260 AI. so if you want to use a 6.5 dia bullet the 260 AI would be the way to go. If you want to shoot 284 diameter then the 708 is hard to beat and no special dies are required.

J E CUSTOM
 
ntsqd said:
This would be a Hunter class rifle build shouldered by someone of petite stature, so 22" is about as long as it's likely to get.

Again, just looking at, for instance, Nosler load data, their indicated most accurate load for 7-08 140gr. is 2760 FPS, for .260 140gr. is 2655 FPS, and for 6.5 CM 140gr is 2392 FPS. What complicates things is that their test barrels are 26" (7-08), 24" (.260), & 24" (6.5 CM), so not exactly apples to apples. If you back out some velocity for those extra 2" of 7-08 barrel the .260 is still looking like the better match.

Thank you all!
Click to expand...

Factory 6.5 140 gr Hornady runs 2770 out of a 20" barrel. Noslers load data is ridiculous. No one shoots a creedmoor at 2390. That's not realistic at all.[/QUOTE]
 
Yep that data is way off for creedmore speeds. Most everyone I know is over 2800fps with 140's and short barrels. The creed really likes the 22" tube so you are in the park with that one.
 
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