belted cartridges

I've read several posts here that talk about " turning off the belt". And I asked, would that not require a chamber to match? Could some one address this, please? Not talking about forming new cases, but rather, as example, cut the belts off my brass, and still shoot it in the original, unmodified rifle. This seems like an awfully sketchy idea.
 
Gregg C said:
I've read several posts here that talk about " turning off the belt". And I asked, would that not require a chamber to match? Could some one address this, please? Not talking about forming new cases, but rather, as example, cut the belts off my brass, and still shoot it in the original, unmodified rifle. This seems like an awfully sketchy idea.
Click to expand...

Gregg, when I talk about turning off the belts, it's to create a new piece of brass which will require a new reamer, new chamber and new HS gauge. I stated this above. Firing a piece of brass with the belt removed in an existing chamber which has the belt feature is not a good idea, in my opinion.
 
sable tireur said:
Gregg, when I talk about turning off the belts, it's to create a new piece of brass which will require a new reamer, new chamber and new HS gauge. I stated this above. Firing a piece of brass with the belt removed in an existing chamber which has the belt feature is not a good idea, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I agree.
 
sable tireur said:
Gregg, when I talk about turning off the belts, it's to create a new piece of brass which will require a new reamer, new chamber and new HS gauge. I stated this above. Firing a piece of brass with the belt removed in an existing chamber which has the belt feature is not a good idea, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Sable, I'm gonna guess you just have the same dimensions as a 300WM but a headspace guage made to headspace off the datum line like a beltless case.
 
Yes, except I'm working with the .375 H&H magnum case. And this is what makes it a little tricky since the shoulder can be troublesome.

I use the belt to fireform a slight improvement in the case body and shoulder before removing the belt.
 
sable tireur said:
Respectfully, if my lathes had showed up with a center which was intentionally high to allow for "wear in", it (they) would have been sent back to the manufacturer for me to get a full refund. No one that I know who does high quality precision lathe work would ever consider working this way under any circumstances. This included gunsmiths who routinely cut chambers. I'm not sure where this idea came from but I've never seen seen it or even heard of this happening.
Click to expand...


+!

When I set up my lathes for the first time, I spend hours getting everything as true as I can before I ever start using it. the tail stock can be adjusted to .0000 with the spindle and chuck. the chuck is very hard to get absolutely true but with proper time and thought you can make it. The tail stock is easier and can be done in 3 or 4 hours.
The up and down of the tail stock quill can be torqued to a specific torque to adjust the vertical misalignment. once the right torque is found then all that is required is repeating the same torque.

I started out using a self centering reamer holder but found that with everything set as perfect as possible it was not necessary and only added length to the set up. I now use a/the dead center and hold the reamer with a short tap handle with the dead center in the counter sink used to make the reamer. with good fitting reamer pilots and the dead center I find (At least for me) A more concentric chamber to the bore. other methods are used and can be just as accurate, but this is what works best for me.

The more accurate the machine, the more accurate the work. Don't except anything but your best and spend time truing up your lathe before you use it.

J E CUSTOM
 
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jlvandersnick said:
Please explain to me what people are talking about when they talk about potential problems with belted cartridges.

I have 7RM and have a 6.5 RM that's shot out....I'd like to be better informed before I build another 6.5 RM,

Yes 6.5 Rem Mag. The barrel is shot.....deep excessive fire cracking in the throat and a deep wide parallel crack in the riffling at the muzzle.
I bought the rifle used and believe the previous owner got it HOT. The rifle was also dropped muzzle down onto something hard. There is a dent in the barrel at the muzzle. The rifling with the crack in it runs right up the the dent.
Pics attached....not the best resolution....but kind of tells the story
Click to expand...

6.5 Remington Mag! Definitely an underrated cartridge. I have two, one built on a model 7 Remington, and another on a long action Tikka.
125gr Partition is killer in this cartridge
 
jlvandersnick said:
Please explain to me what people are talking about when they talk about potential problems with belted cartridges.

I have 7RM and have a 6.5 RM that's shot out....I'd like to be better informed before I build another 6.5 RM,

Yes 6.5 Rem Mag. The barrel is shot.....deep excessive fire cracking in the throat and a deep wide parallel crack in the riffling at the muzzle.
I bought the rifle used and believe the previous owner got it HOT. The rifle was also dropped muzzle down onto something hard. There is a dent in the barrel at the muzzle. The rifling with the crack in it runs right up the the dent.
Pics attached....not the best resolution....but kind of tells the story
Click to expand...


jlvandersnick,
Ok, I see... it sounds like a new barrel is in order then you're on your way, I'd be thinking a 6.5 Rem Mag in Pac Nor 1-9" twist in Polygonal 26" long in a Varmit/Palma contour, or sporter contour both are nice... just my thought, Pac-Nor does a great job and easy to work with. Good Luck. (Yes I am a big fan of the 6.5 Rem Mag from as far back as the '70s.
http://pac-nor.com/
 
Nothing wrong with belted cases. Matter of fact, that's all I'll ever run. It's simply a different beast. Sizing, and seating are your biggest issues. Over pressures are common, so when working loads, start in the middle.
 
jlvandersnick said:
Please explain to me what people are talking about when they talk about potential problems with belted cartridges.

I have 7RM and have a 6.5 RM that's shot out....I'd like to be better informed before I build another 6.5 RM,

Yes 6.5 Rem Mag. The barrel is shot.....deep excessive fire cracking in the throat and a deep wide parallel crack in the riffling at the muzzle.
I bought the rifle used and believe the previous owner got it HOT. The rifle was also dropped muzzle down onto something hard. There is a dent in the barrel at the muzzle. The rifling with the crack in it runs right up the the dent.
Pics attached....not the best resolution....but kind of tells the story
Click to expand...

There is excellent info http://www.larrywillis.com/ Some may never need the info some may, I have the Willis die and have had to use it on a few rifles, others I've worn the barrel out on, needing it means nothing either way, it's just a tool and an excellent one at that!
 
bigngreen
bigngreen said:
There is excellent info http://www.larrywillis.com/ Some may never need the info some may, I have the Willis die and have had to use it on a few rifles, others I've worn the barrel out on, needing it means nothing either way, it's just a tool and an excellent one at that!
Click to expand...
Agree. Great tool. I've got 5 belted cases 4 of which I can use this die on. I don't need it often but when I do it works great.
 
sable tireur said:
For the sake of discussion and no I'm not being argumentative...:D

The belts on some case designs are from over a century ago when the H&H cases debuted in Africa. Holland designed the cases so they would slip in and out of the double rifles easily by using a very minor angle on the shoulder of the case. The angle was such that there was not a positive headspace. The belt was added for positive headspace. The rest is history including the term "belted magnum" as an indicator of strength and power...

Fast forward. Many shooters shift the headspace on belted magnums to the shoulder thereby eliminating the belt as any influence. There has also been an influx of beltless cases in larger capacities hitting the market.

300/338 Norma Mag
338 Lapua Mag
300 PRC
6.5 PRC (for the original Poster...)
others

Many of us can also turn the belts off of belted mags allowing the headspace to shift to the shoulder. A new HS gauge is required.

I personally have no gripe against belted cartridge since they make up a nice percentage of my work. But I also accept the newer crop of non-belted magnums as being suitable substitutes for the belted variety. :)
Click to expand...

This has been my experience exactly, well said!
 

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