Fine tuning loads lee factory crimp die

rfurman24 said:
The point is we are both striving for the same goal. That is ultimate accuracy. You're on a long range hunting forum. If you're not after ultimate accuracy you have zero business shooting game long range period. If we can't agree on that we have nothing left to say to each other. Almost everything we use in long range hunting has roots in some form of competition shooting. Back to the point that is really a fact crimping is not conducive to ultimate accuracy. I can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink. Good luck.
Click to expand...
all I'm saying is I have personally tried it-- some times it helps, some times it hurts but I can not make a definitive blanket statement and say it always does or never does because I have seen both results --I never gave a definitive answer one away or the other

the op asked if we had tried it and did it help or not--I'm not sure you answered his question, just made a generalized unsupported statement
 
Neck tension is critical to accurate ammo as is bullet run out. I have shot tight necks with soft seated projectiles. I turned necks and performed extreme case prep. To get tight groups out to 500 meters on steel rams. At those distance es and sd are not as critical to good performance as it is at 1000 and beyond. If a variance in neck tension by a light crimp brings those #'s down. It could be a asset just as annealing at the proper time is. I am interested in hearing what your experience is if you tested a collet induced crimp
 
you would be much better off by telling us :
what the guns are
what chambering
where you are in load development
every step in your current loading process
what the components are
and specifically what you expect
 
ar10ar15man said:
you would be much better off by telling us :
what the guns are
what chambering
where you are in load development
every step in your current loading process
what the components are
and specifically what you expect
Click to expand...

280 ackley 180 gr eld 30 Bartlien Devient action load rl 26 3026fps I left the lab radar on so batteries are dead. as I remenber es was running maybe 30 I have 50 rounds through barrel it is still gaining a little speed. the attached photo is 3 shots at 1120. Its only a 3 shot group but shows a lot of promise (its all I had left after set up}. It is a 1/2 moa rifle or better, bug hole groups at 100 are easy.

6.5.280 ackley 147 eld rl 26 at 3060 have run some at 3150. 29" bartlien on the new american rifle co action. I noticed that the case necks on some fired cases are a little snug, the bullets don t just drop in after firing. Best described as a almost tight neck with some of the cases. I was starting to get pressure at 57.5 grs and should be able to run closer to 60. I am thinking I have neck thickness issue or case length issues. I be looking at things closer this weekend. Second photo was shot at 1000 yards 147eldm at 3150. I was fire forming at little past 1/2 way I came up .2 mills. es on that load was 25 to 30. at a 100 its shooting 3/4 to 1 moa I definitely don t have a load dialed in.


I am hoping to bring the es down and tighten up groups at 100 . New nosler 280 improved brass. loaded with redding competition neck sizer and seaters. bullets seated into the lands for forming purpose. I adjust to just kissing the lands now that I have fire formed cases. Out os rl 26 so will be looking at rl23 and h4831sc all loads thrown on a electric dispenser held to 1/10 gr.

What will have a greater impact on es .

OAL. My best groups have always come from kissing the lands, will seating deeper affect es.

I know neck tension does and try to stay around .002 to stop runout problems . Why I am considering a collet die to introduce a little crimp.



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IYpZW1gFRI6Wdf%pzs0vqg.jpg
IMG_0073.JPG
 
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I have seen everything from cutting my group size at 100 yards in half (2" to 1" with an old H&R Topper .22 Hornet, 40 gr VMAX) to maybe opening things up a bit, but not enough to be sure it was the crimp. I did find that consistently I got the best results that I was going to get by using a very light crimp rather than crushing a cannelure into the bullets, which the die can do.
 
quit using batt's in the labradar, get a small
rechargeable batt pack.
what brass ?
how is is sorted
neck turned( it sounds like not)

small changes come from paying attention to small details
see if you can get better than 1/10 on the powder.
are the bullets seated below the shoulder ( body dia not boat tail)

if on the lands, no need for a crimp.
 
ar10ar15man said:
quit using batt's in the labradar, get a small
rechargeable batt pack.
what brass ?
how is is sorted
neck turned( it sounds like not)

small changes come from paying attention to small details
see if you can get better than 1/10 on the powder.
are the bullets seated below the shoulder ( body dia not boat tail)

if on the lands, no need for a crimp.
Click to expand...


I bought the battery pack it lasted 3 months and won t recharge, New Nosler 280 ackley improved. No sorting. base of the bullet is just past the neck. The loads are dispensed and adjusted by hand. scale claims to be with in a tenth.Now that they are fire formed i will de-prime hydrosonicly clean, trim and uniform primer pockets. I got a tubing mike and will check them for consistency. I turn them if I need to. I want single digs for sd and a es about 10
 
JDD said:
what do you think of the lee factory crimp dies. Have you tested them with what results. What variables in the reloading process you find have the greatest impact on ES and SD.
Click to expand...
Nothing I've done in thirty years made more of a difference in minimizing my ES and SD than using the Lee FCD.

What I do is load the rounds with just enough tension to keep the bullet from falling in or out and put a light crimp on them.

This has produced some really amazing consistency for me while avoiding the issues of minimal neck tension.
 
JDD said:
I bought the battery pack it lasted 3 months and won t recharge, New Nosler 280 ackley improved. No sorting. base of the bullet is just past the neck. The loads are dispensed and adjusted by hand. scale claims to be with in a tenth.Now that they are fire formed i will de-prime hydrosonicly clean, trim and uniform primer pockets. I got a tubing mike and will check them for consistency. I turn them if I need to. I want single digs for sd and a es about 10
Click to expand...
Unless I'm mistaken you don't need to use their battery pack. Any USB power source will work.

When I travel I have backup supplies I carry which are essentially a big battery with the electronics required to charge through USB ports to all my devices.
 
If the only seating depth you have tried is kissing the lands, you need to try different seating depths. And yes, different seating depths can affect your ES/SD along with powder charge.

It all depends on how far down the hole you want to go...neck turning, sorting brass and bullets, scales that measure in .001 grains etc. All of these things can help you get your ES down but are you willing to do it and is it worth it for your style or type of shooting?

If you want to start out slow, just do a seating depth test first, then fine tune with powder charge and see where that gets you.
 
WildRose said:
Nothing I've done in thirty years made more of a difference in minimizing my ES and SD than using the Lee FCD.

What I do is load the rounds with just enough tension to keep the bullet from falling in or out and put a light crimp on them.

This has produced some really amazing consistency for me while avoiding the issues of minimal neck tension.
Click to expand...
 
if the bullet is going past the shoulder, the brass may move and seriously screw with seating pressure/tension (donut), it happens over time compare seating a new case and a multi fired case
consider throating a little longer/seating longer
 
i know no one using a 0.001 scale. lots of 0.02 and a few 0.01.
no 0.001's
adding bs to a basically valid comment ruins its use.

Korhil78 said:
If the only seating depth you have tried is kissing the lands, you need to try different seating depths. And yes, different seating depths can affect your ES/SD along with powder charge.

It all depends on how far down the hole you want to go...neck turning, sorting brass and bullets, scales that measure in .001 grains etc. All of these things can help you get your ES down but are you willing to do it and is it worth it for your style or type of shooting?

If you want to start out slow, just do a seating depth test first, then fine tune with powder charge and see where that gets you.
Click to expand...
 
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