Seating depth limitations

I'd try the 166 or 174 Hammer Hunter's. They tend towards being very tolerant regarding seating depth's, should work at magazine length, and typically yield accuracy results readily.
Take a critical look at your rifle, not a low end or a high end issue merely encouraging you to see what if anything can be improved.

Cole S said:

Hunting: no further than probably 300 yards
Target: 5-600 yards, maybe further if I can find the space

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Well if you're only shooting 600yrds you don't really need a 210VLD. Especially for hunting. Inside 300yd I would use something like an accubond or partition if hunting elk. But that's just me.

I wouldn't try VLDs. Try different bullets whi h aren't too sensitive.

Cole S said:

I recently bought a Ruger American in 300 win. I did a bunch of research before starting the load development and settled on Berger 210 VLD hunting bullets to try first. I read about the sensitivity to seating depth with those bullets but didn't realize the magazine on my gun would be a major limiting factor...I'm unable to seat them as far out as they need to be. I shot the initial rounds, working my way up through the powder charges, and got a couple charges to group just under 1" at 100 yds. Loaded up more charges around those 2 successful ones but haven't got a chance to go shoot them yet.

My question is this: if I can't get the groups to tighten up, should I switch to Noslers or another brand? Should I try the 185gr Berger Classic Hunters? A support tech from Berger told me they are designed to work better in factory rifles and be less sensitive to seating depth. Just don't know if I'm spinning my wheels trying to get Bergers to shoot in a factory rifle. Has anyone else had success with them in a non-custom gun?

For your info, the gun will be used primarily for hunting and I'd like it to shoot 1/2 MOA or better. I loaded up my rounds with H1000.

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Read this: https://bergerbullets.com/vld-making-shoot/

Read it until you fully understand it, then go to the loading bench. Consider what functions 100% reliably in your magazine to be magazine length, and use that as your starting point same as .010" from lands. Then load test rounds just like the article says to for a hunting rifle seating all the way in .130" from max magazine length.

Go shoot the test rounds and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I did this from a magazine in an old 1:7 twist .243 Steven's 200 rifle I built with 115 Bergers and DTAC bullets.

100 yard Berger test


Berger 300 yard group.


DTAC 100 yard test.


I sold the rifle because at 12+ lbs scoped I'd never hunt with it. However, following Berger's instructions told me I didn't have to worry about not reaching the lands.

ducky said:

Read this: https://bergerbullets.com/vld-making-shoot/

Read it until you fully understand it, then go to the loading bench. Consider what functions 100% reliably in your magazine to bemagazine length, and use that as your starting point same as .010" from lands. Then load test rounds just like the article says to for a hunting rifle seating all the way in .130" from max magazine length.

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So you're saying to treat max length that will fit into the magazine as basically "the lands"? So start there and seat the bullet further in all the way up to .130" off the maximum mag length?

With the bullets I loaded last, the jump is .210" from the ogive to the rifling. I could probably load them a little further out, about .030" or so, and they would fit in the mag because there's still a little bit of room. So that would have me starting at a .180" jump. And then load up at .010", .050", .090" and .130" off of THAT depth? That just seems like a huge jump.

Well, bad news from my range trip today. Here's what I shot and what they grouped:

73.3gr H1000 (4 shots) 3.893"
73.5gr H1000 (4 shots) 2.050"
73.7gr H1000 (4 shots) 1.920"
74.3gr H1000 (4 shots) 1.802"
74.5gr H1000 (4 shots) 2.848"
74.7gr H1000 (4 shots) 2.932"

I chose these loads because when I did the first test I got:

73.5gr H1000 (3 shots) .926"
74.5gr H1000 (3 shots) .954"

The only thing I changed on the rifle was adding a muzzle brake made by Ross Schuler. I inspected the brake to make sure the bullets weren't touching it and throwing them off and there are no markings on it that would indicate they are. Could it be the brake causing these terrible groups? Is it changing the harmonics of the barrel or effecting the flight of the bullet? I just find it hard to believe that during my first test I had an average group size of 1.423" and during todays test the average was 2.574". I didn't have any flyers because I would have called them if I did.

I don't know where to go from here. It seems I'm spinning my wheels trying to get these VLDs to shoot in my gun. I've read through all of Berger's materials on the subject. Do I just need to switch to a bullet that doesn't have the secant ogive shape?

Cole S said:

So you're saying to treat max length that will fit into the magazine as basically "the lands"? So start there and seat the bullet further in all the way up to .130" off the maximum mag length?

With the bullets I loaded last, the jump is .210" from the ogive to the rifling. I could probably load them a little further out, about .030" or so, and they would fit in the mag because there's still a little bit of room. So that would have me starting at a .180" jump. And then load up at .010", .050", .090" and .130" off of THAT depth? That just seems like a huge jump.

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Yes, forget about the jump. Proof will be in the groups. It's either that or be satisfied with what the rifle is already shooting. I don't know about the Ruger American Mag, but my American Ranch is a PITA to single feed.

Are you dead set on VLDs? Try something else

Csafisher said:

Are you dead set on VLDs? Try something else

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I am not at all dead set on them. I just figured I'd try to make them work. I'm open to trying other bullets.

Basically as you seat your bullet out further, (using the same powder charge) you increase the volume of your case and drop the pressure just a little bit. This works ok until you contact the lands, once the bullet is seated out to the lands or jammed, the pressure spikes up to approx 3000 psi more. I'm pretty sure Quickload adds about approx 3000psi for a jammed bullet seating position, but it might be a bit higher.

Short answer is that by doing what you plan to do, seating longer in your modified magazine, you will drop the pressure just a little bit which might achieve what you want and allow a larger powder charge without pressure signs.

I would try Nosler 180 Ballistic Tips. Not insanely expensive to shoot and very forgiving with respect to seating depth. You can pretty much run them interchangeably with the 180 Nosler Accubond. With a max hunting to 300 yards and 600 yard target, they should work very well.

I still say run the seating depth test per Berger. If you have 24 bullets left what do you have to loose at this point?

ducky said:

I still say run the seating depth test per Berger. If you have 24 bullets left what do you have to loose at this point?

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I'm definitely going to do that. I already paid for them, so I might as well keep trying to make them work.

you changed the barrel by adding a brake ..
by adding the brake you brought yourself back to square one

The only thing I changed on the rifle was adding a muzzle brake made by Ross Schuler. I inspected the brake to make sure the bullets weren't touching it and throwing them off and there are no markings on it that would indicate they are.

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pre-threaded and you screwed one on or a gunsmith threaded your barrel and installed a brake ??