Schmitt & Bender feedback

My best friend for 40 yrs. who died 3 yrs ago had money. He bought a S$B 5x25x56x34mm . I bought fell over when he told me the cost. He had it on his LaRue 338 Lapua. I know it tracked xlnt. I didn't notice any yellow tint. I compared to my Luepold VX6 4x24x52x34 I had on my Rem. 700 300 RUM. I really didnt notice any difference in the lenses. I thought I was nuts for paying $1100 for the Leupold. It was $100 off on sale. Whoo hoo ! I have 2 CDS turrets for it. Tracks well. Never had a problem with it. I hunt and I'm hard on rifles and scopes. I have a couple Luepolds. A lot of older American made Burris . I really liked thier 6x24x50x30 and 4x16x50x30 Black Diamonds. I have 2 Vortex Viper HST's . So far so good. Recently bought a 6x24x50x30 Athlon to put on my 6.5 PRC. I haven't shot it yet but so far I like the scope . Optics a as good as My Vortex. I myself can't justify the $ for S&B , Swaro , high end Zeis , Lieca, NF or others. I know they are tops though.
Forgot to say that before I got the VX6 I ordered a Huskemaw 4x24x50 . Hi end Japanese. The optics were great. The cross hairs way to fine for me. I sent back.

djfergus said:

I've never handled an S&B. I guess I will pass on them for now. I remember when IOR Scopes were talked well of but I don't hear much about them anymore, not any feedback to support them anyway. I used to think that Leupold was king of tracking and at one time they probably were. I've had Leupold and it's possible that I would try another if the price was to hard to pass up. Sure seems funny how Leupold used to be king among blue collar guys, then came sightron, nightforce, vortex, etc... I'm not bashing Leupold by any means. Today it just doesn't seem they are where they were in the game 20 years ago.

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A lot of folks figured out that with Leupold you're paying a premium for a name. Nothing special about them. I've worked with a lot of them from VX6 on down. They have ALL failed in one way or another. Unfortunately, there were missed or wound animals as a result in a couple of these failures.

The ones I've done fixture tracking tests on (VX-III's) have all overtrackeded by a lot. A person may be ok with military grade Leupy's but there so much better options for less money out there these days.

I have owned a pair of S&B. Great glass. Adjustments are on point. But, in this day, I don't believe that the cost is warranted. The upside I sold both my Schmidt's that were 10+ years old and they held their value. Currently Iam an Athlon Cronus fan. I also have a Riton Mod 7 that has promise. Of everything I own now my VX-6 7-42 is the very best target scope I have owned.

What most don't consider is weight in their cost evaluation. How are you going to hunt with it? Is it just a benchrest rifle? From a hunting standpoint, I've never had a gunbearer on a hunt and the big European scopes are quite heavy. Having tested S&B, Zeiss and Leupold, spending one quarter of the cost of an S&B and being able to carry it easily makes Leupold work for my hunting (pinpoint accuracy helps but not as high a priority). For a little more than half the cost of the S&B, I've never found Zeiss wanting. Zeiss is excellently clear and the ones I own are outstanding, especially at twilight. I just can't justify the S&B, but then I don't drive a $150,000 vehicle either.

My problem with S&Bender is the 2 year warranty. Lots just as good glass with a forever warranty...

I have owned and used a lot of different scope brands. About the only brands I can think of that I have not played with are Hensoldt, March and U.S. Optics. Hands down S&B is the best I have worked with overall. The adjustments are spot on and unbeatable, always tracks true and returns to zero. Eye relief and eyebox very user friendly, easy scope to get behind, especially for long periods. Reticles, in particular the standard "Mildot" style, best I have used, illumination again, best I have used. The glass, again best I have used. For those who look through a S&B and then another brand in broad daylight you will not see much difference. Those last few minutes of light though is where you will see it. Much better contrast and resolution, amazingly so. All this performance comes at a cost though, namely size and weight. It is a great tool for its intended purpose, a true precision instrument, but for my hunting needs its just too much scope. Works splendidly on my heavy barreled target rifle though.

I have 2 s&b. One on each of my match rifles. I have had Leupold, nf, and vortex on match guns. If I ever have enough coin I might get a hendersolt. They have the best glass I've ever looked through. I lost a buck a few years ago using a Leupold 4-14. End of day and in an antler restricted location. I could see antlers with my Bushnell binos, but couldn't count points. With the Leupold I wasn't even able to see antlers let alone tell how many points. Now I hunt with Swarovski.

djfergus said:

I think I can squeak by with a lowly $1200 scope, lol. 20+ years ago I thought my $150 Simmons was top of the line, lol.

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At $1200, The nightforce shv seems to be a great scope. I have not had any issues with mine and it is super clear. Although I haven't shot it past 500 yards, the tracking has been great going from 100 to 500 and back and forth.

I do also have a pmii that I love. I really like the MTC and the locking turrets on it. It was accidentally dropped (not by me!) and took a couple flips down a mountain while packing a bull out. Other than being full of mud and snow, you would have never known it happened. It's a great scope. Glass is super clear. From 100 to 1245 yards tracking is spot on. That's as far as I've gotten to shoot.

I also have vortex pst's that have done me great and I have no complaints. Tracked great and the 28 was wearing one when I dropped a bull at 1104 yards. The only problem I have had with them is the objective lense came loose on one and caused my shots to be all over. Long story, but took a bit of time to realize it was the scope. Sent it to vortex and I had it back in less than two weeks. Customer service is amazing.

Each to his own on scopes. I've only experienced a few. There are a lot of great ones out there. Everyone's eyes are different. Get the best you can and enjoy using it.

Never used an SB. Never even looked through one. Probably a crap scope. I stick with my BSAs.

300whisper said:

Never used an SB. Never even looked through one. Probably a crap scope. I stick with my BSAs.

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Lol

The debate over the better glass is over rated. Me and my benchrest buddies have had these discussions and rarely is everyone in agreement. To me I think my March highmaster has the best glass of the scopes or more accurately the best glass coating I've had and have. Everyone's eyes are different. My concern is tracking and repeatability with no poa shifts. All the upper end scope manufacturers have decent glass. When it comes down to it your really paying for the pricey mechanical features of the scopes and the brand name.

In all seriousness, I've looked through my buddies SB PMii and his Kahles 624i. They are nice scopes. You know they'll hold zero and be repeatable. But so is my SWFA and it's $2300 cheaper. I think the sweet spot for the current scope market is the $1k-$1.5k market. The SHV, Cronus, PSTs, Primary Arms Platinum, SWFA HDs, etc. are the best bang for the buck. The higher end scopes you start seeing diminishing returns. It's because scope technology is getting so advanced for all those awesome little features you have to start paying a ton to get them.

djfergus said:

I used to hear salesmen in gun shops say this all the time " you need to spend twice as much on your scope as you do on your rifle". It must have been a universal statement among gun shop salesmen. So a guy I worked with done just that. He bought a $1200 Browning eclipse & $2400 nightforce (nothing against night force, I think they are great). It bearly managed 1.5 moa. It was almost hillarious cause it was like he thought the nightforce should have made his gun shoot 1/2 moa. I had a $800 rifle shooting 1/2 moa with a $700 Leupold. Granted, he had a heck of a lot better scope than I did but I hooked up at greater distances than he did on game. This was 15-20 years ago or so. And I really was never impressed with the glass on that Leupold I had. Just a funny story I had to tell.

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I've heard that statement before too. I think a hunter/shooter should buy what he feels he can best afford, but if for Long Range it's worth investing a little more to get good reliability. I do think that is one thing the Leupolds offer. The only suprising thing to me about the statement is in regard to the Browning rifle. I think the Eclipse is one of the X-bolt models. I've have an X-bolt and it shoots better than any other gun I've owned out of the box. I've never owned a custom gun but have owned, Winchesters, Savages, Remington's and other factory rifles and it's been the best of them all for accuracy and a smooth auction. All of them however would shoot better than 1.5 MOA though it took some work with some of them to get there but nothing radical. Reloading also helps a lot in the accuracy department.
If 1.5 MOA was the best any gun of mine could get it probably would have to go unless it was meant to be a short range gun in the first place, like a muzzle loader or one of the new straight wall rifles.

75Cougar said:

I have owned all the scopes you have and the only one that has ever failed is a Schmidt and Bender! Needless to say I have a black spot in my heart for S&B!!!

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Hi 75 Cougar,
How did your Schmidt fail? What model was it?