Recoil, what recoil?

I can't agree with you more Coyotemaster. In my previous entry, I believe it was # 79 or # 80 I made reference to using a muzzle brake and recoil pad on a 300 WBY Ultralight to make it a pleasure to use. I also use the best hearing protection you can buy to help with the muzzle blast!

As a rule gun manufacturers r not building guns that can be shot.
S by S Elephant rifles r regulated stand up.
Learn how to shoot heavy rec. rifles.
My 10 lbs .500 A Square however does need a brake from there on down we are just fine

Rich Coyle said:

It seems most people don't understand recoil. The pad absorbs the initial action of the bullet and powder accelerating. Then the break dissipates the rocket action of the burning powder.

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Yeah, no.
The entire process happens on a different time scale than you imagine.

The recoil is indeed the summation of those actions, but the bullet is long gone before the resulting forces act(cause the the entire mass of the rifle to move hitting your shoulder).

This is why for example recoil is reduced in semi-auto fire....the energy is absorbed/redirected into the reloading action.

The pad, the mass of the rifle, the length of the barrel, the type of action, the muzzle brake....these are all factors...but the pad is the last, not the first of these.

I had a Remington 700 BDL in 300 Win Mag that was miserable to shoot from the bench. Let a few buddies shoot it. All hated it. All still remember shooting it.

Likewise with my Remington 870 and Remington Buck Hammers. I used to call them shoulder hammers. Very accurate and planted deer. Didn't mind them in the field, but checking zero each year was brutal. Made me switch 100% to a muzzleloader for Whitetails.

I put pheasant loads in my daughter's 11-87 to pattern her turkey gun then toss in magnums when hunting. I realize not best idea. But, neither her nor the turkeys know the difference. Call them in close.

Glen8338 said:

I can't agree with you more Coyotemaster. In my previous entry, I believe it was # 79 or # 80 I made reference to using a muzzle brake and recoil pad on a 300 WBY Ultralight to make it a pleasure to use. I also use the best hearing protection you can buy to help with the muzzle blast!

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Yes I completely forgot to mention the value of good hearing protection. I think it was Bob Brister who mentioned flinch from noise is about as common as flinch from recoil itself.

coyotemaster said:

Yes I completely forgot to mention the value of good hearing protection. I think it was Bob Brister who mentioned flinch from noise is about as common as flinch from recoil itself.

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If not more so! memtb

Back to the Original Poster--who really gave good advice. So-called "recoil pads" have been marketed for decades that did very little to reduce felt recoil. That is why so many in this thread dismiss "recoil pads" because they have tried Pachmayer and a dozen others over the years without any real benefit.

Most folks assume (without knowing) that the Limbsaver pad is no better than the others.
My first experience with it began when it was a brand new product and I was looking for some way to make my Benelli Super Black Eagle I tolerable with 3.5" Heavyshot Turkey Loads. The factory Benelli "recoil pad" was no different than all the other so-called recoil reducing products. It was painful. I was so surprised when I tried Sims Labratories Limbsaver, I had to shoot several of the 3.5" Heavier than lead loads just to believe it. Killed many Gobblers since then. Then I put a Limbsaver on my .270 WSM. So much more pleasant. I shot groups at 200 Yards (TWO Hundred) that measured less than 0.73". Four three shot groups over several years and she is still way sub-MOA at 300 yards even with some wind. Then I put a Limbsaver on my .300 Win Mag and another on my Dad's .270 WSM and another on my Son's Tikka T3 .30-06.

No, I don't work for Limbsaver or sell them. But anyone who doesn't put a Limsaver on their heavy kicking guns is missing out. Reduced felt recoil does makes for more pleasant and more accurate shooting for people who are still willing to improve. But some folks are dumbasses and will never improve their shooting because you can't fix stupid. Every single one of my hard kicking guns are easier to shoot well with a Limbsaver. Lots of folks won't change because they shoot well enough with what they have. Well, if you don't want to shoot better, don't try it.

Jon Bischof said:

Back to the Original Poster--who really gave good advice. So-called "recoil pads" have been marketed for decades that did very little to reduce felt recoil. That is why so many in this thread dismiss "recoil pads" because they have tried Pachmayer and a dozen others over the years without any real benefit.

Most folks assume (without knowing) that the Limbsaver pad is no better than the others.
My first experience with it began when it was a brand new product and I was looking for some way to make my Benelli Super Black Eagle I tolerable with 3.5" Heavyshot Turkey Loads. The factory Benelli "recoil pad" was no different than all the other so-called recoil reducing products. It was painful. I was so surprised when I tried Sims Labratories Limbsaver, I had to shoot several of the 3.5" Heavier than lead loads just to believe it. Killed many Gobblers since then. Then I put a Limbsaver on my .270 WSM. So much more pleasant. I shot groups at 200 Yards (TWO Hundred) that measured less than 0.73". Four three shot groups over several years and she is still way sub-MOA at 300 yards even with some wind. Then I put a Limbsaver on my .300 Win Mag and another on my Dad's .270 WSM and another on my Son's Tikka T3 .30-06.

No, I don't work for Limbsaver or sell them. But anyone who doesn't put a Limsaver on their heavy kicking guns is missing out. Reduced felt recoil does makes for more pleasant and more accurate shooting for people who are still willing to improve. But some folks are dumbasses and will never improve their shooting because you can't fix stupid. Every single one of my hard kicking guns are easier to shoot well with a Limbsaver. Lots of folks won't change because they shoot well enough with what they have. Well, if you don't want to shoot better, don't try

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Are you guys using a replacement Limbsaver or a slip on Limbsaver?

memtb said:

Rich, what's a brake! memtb

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How often have I complained to myself for people using the wrong word and now I'm guilty! Certainly I have sinned gravely.

mdk777 said:

Yeah, no.
The entire process happens on a different time scale than you imagine.

The recoil is indeed the summation of those actions, but the bullet is long gone before the resulting forces act(cause the the entire mass of the rifle to move hitting your shoulder).

This is why for example recoil is reduced in semi-auto fire....the energy is absorbed/redirected into the reloading action.

The pad, the mass of the rifle, the length of the barrel, the type of action, the muzzle brake....these are all factors...but the pad is the last, not the first of these.

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Sounds good at first. I wanted to agree with your statement. Then I remembered Newton saying something about for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The rifle starts back the moment the primer detonates.

RockyMtnMT said:

If given the choice, I choose not to get kicked. Muzzle brakes are worth it.

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I don't think so, but that's why I stopped using cartridges with more powder capacity than a .30-06. I still have a .300 H&H and a .375 Ruger but they don't see much range time. I got a suppressor in jail, I might have to give a .30 Cal magnum or less a go again.

Watch super slow mo vid....there are dozens.
force =mass x acceleration
acceleration = change in velocity over TIME.

Just because there is an instantaneous force...TIME is still required for mass to change position in response to that force impulse.

Your recall pad on the end of your stock is not where the force of the bullet acts first.
First the gas...then the gas on the barrel, then the barrel on the stock....

the bullet is gone and half way to the target ( yeah, not 1000 yards, but several) before the rubber on the pad is absorbing or distributing the force of recoil.
Before the entire mass of the system is moving, the muzzle brake has also exerted its influence on the rifle system.

That is why you can shot a 50 cal. If the brake did not act before the pad...it would simply not be of any use.

Again, you need not take my word for it ....there are dozens and dozens of very high frame vid that you can consult now.

PS...reminds me of the debate that race horse people used to have.
Millions of people watched horses run and yet there was considerable debate if all four feet were in the air at the same time.

High speed photography put an end to all the debate.
Opinion and theory didn't matter, it was obvious from the still frames what happened
(Yes, at full speed, a race horse did get all feet in the air bt. strides)

pss



watch at about 19 sec.

absolutely no movement of the stock at the moment the bullet and gas are leaving the barrel.
recoil and visible movement of stock and absorption of that shock wave at the shoulder several seconds latter (in this high speed vid)

I think it was mentioned earlier but the concussion bothers me more than the recoil. I seem to notice it more the older I get. I have a suppressor in jail also and can't wait to see how much difference it will make. Hoping to replace muzzle brakes with suppressors on rifles that are used the most.

tbrice23 said:

Are you guys using a replacement Limbsaver or a slip on Limbsaver?

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Brice: Limbsaver makes pads to fit most popular factory stocks. I have some of those, but I also have the 'grind-to-fit' Limbsavers that were fitted by my Gunsmith such as the one on my Ithaca Model 37 12 GA. shotgun. The slip-on Limbsavers I have a couple that I use just for testing other guns.

Comparison between a Limbsaver and any other so-called recoil pad is a waste of time and probably money. The Limbsaver is not like the others. Even the material is patented.