Angle Compensation Question

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Brydawg512

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Hello all,

Just getting into long range shooting (eventually for purposes of hunting if need be) and had a question regarding angle compensation for shooting. I just recently purchased a Sig Sauer Kilo that has the AMR function as well as LOS function. First question is, should I use AMR? Say I have a shot at 500 yards, but there is an angle. I range it and the AMR says 425 yards. Would I then just adjust my elevation turret for a 425 yard shot? Is it that simple? Thanks in advance.
 
Well in general you will always use your horizontal range for your dope after about 15 degrees. More so 20 and above.
In your example you are saying you are shooting up/down about 26 or 27 degrees.. so pretty steep. If you didn't want to use Amwhatever you can just take the COS of the degree angle you are on and multiply it by your true range (500) and you will come up with the same results. Dial for 425.
 
Brydawg512 said:
Hello all,

Just getting into long range shooting (eventually for purposes of hunting if need be) and had a question regarding angle compensation for shooting. I just recently purchased a Sig Sauer Kilo that has the AMR function as well as LOS function. First question is, should I use AMR? Say I have a shot at 500 yards, but there is an angle. I range it and the AMR says 425 yards. Would I then just adjust my elevation turret for a 425 yard shot? Is it that simple? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is that simple. If AMR says 425, dial to 425. The LOS reading will be longer. If the angle is steep enough and the shot is long enough the difference between your LOS and AMR will be material.
 
I was wondering about this in the past and did some examples for myself.

The most accurate solution is to plug the angle into a ballistic calculator to get a more accurate elevation adjustment.

The second most accurate was to multiply the cosine of the angle by the elevation adjustment for a LOS shot. This is what is referred to as the improved rifleman rule.

The third solution is to do like you described. This is referred to as the rifleman rule.
 
Dial elevation for actual horizontal range (so whatever the Kilo tells you your angle corrected distance is). Dial wind for true range though or you can miss or make a cruel wound when ranges get beyond a couple hundred yards. Remember the bullet still has the time of flight of the longer distance.
 
BallisticsGuy said:
Dial elevation for actual horizontal range (so whatever the Kilo tells you your angle corrected distance is). Dial wind for true range though or you can miss or make a cruel wound when ranges get beyond a couple hundred yards. Remember the bullet still has the time of flight of the longer distance.
Click to expand...

Ok, great. Now, I still am very new and have lots of practice to do. Once I have my round selected and plug my info into a ballistics calculator, will it give me windage adjustments based on distance (obviously need to true this info)? When i plug it into a ballistics calculator, should I put a "general" or "normal" condition windage value in? 5mph? Thank you
 
Brydawg512 said:
Hello all,

Just getting into long range shooting (eventually for purposes of hunting if need be) and had a question regarding angle compensation for shooting. I just recently purchased a Sig Sauer Kilo that has the AMR function as well as LOS function. First question is, should I use AMR? Say I have a shot at 500 yards, but there is an angle. I range it and the AMR says 425 yards. Would I then just adjust my elevation turret for a 425 yard shot? Is it that simple? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
The short answer is to always use the AMR function if you are doping your scope based on what the rangefinder gives you.

Basically the RF is doing the math for you to find the bottom leg of the triangle is what your actual ballistic range is.

If you are shooting at a target that is a 5,000 feet above or below you but only 100yds away from you horizontally, you dope for 100yds.

Basically you are adjusting for the horizontal distance no matter what because it is the time gravity acts upon the bullet across that length that determines your drop.
 
WildRose said:
The short answer is to always use the AMR function if you are doping your scope based on what the rangefinder gives you.

Basically the RF is doing the math for you to find the bottom leg of the triangle is what your actual ballistic range is.

If you are shooting at a target that is a 5,000 feet above or below you but only 100yds away from you horizontally, you dope for 100yds.

Basically you are adjusting for the horizontal distance no matter what because it is the time gravity acts upon the bullet across that length that determines your drop.
Click to expand...

Ok, so pretty much range the target and adjust turret for the AMR range produced? So in short, it's just calculating the true distance to adjust for?
 
Brydawg512 said:
Ok, so pretty much range the target and adjust turret for the AMR range produced? So in short, it's just calculating the true distance to adjust for?
Click to expand...
I'm assuming that AMR is the same as Leupold's TBR and other similar programs so I'll give that a tentative "yes" with an aserix that says read your user's manual to be sure you fully understand what it does.

To give yourself a good example of the difference in the two try shooting ranges of tall buildings in your area from short distances. Shoot the front door and top floors in both modes and see how different the results are.
 
Brydawg512 said:
Ok, great. Now, I still am very new and have lots of practice to do. Once I have my round selected and plug my info into a ballistics calculator, will it give me windage adjustments based on distance (obviously need to true this info)? When i plug it into a ballistics calculator, should I put a "general" or "normal" condition windage value in? 5mph? Thank you
Click to expand...

Ballistics calculators vary in how they output data. You'll have to refer to the owners manual or customer support for the one you use. The one I make puts wind in its own column so you just pick the right wind distance and the right drop distance, hold wind, dial drop and shoot. Most calculators I've used have a "quick" calculator that assumes more or less a flat and level shot angle and then a mode where you can add your shot angle and all kinds of wacky non-standard conditions. Getting there requires flipping a toggle in the software either literally flipping a virtual switch or just using it in one mode versus another, figuring out which is usually less than obvious for newbs to be brutally honest. The one I make is meant to be printed, not used digitally in real life so in that respect it's a lot easier on newbs, largely by design. Still, the how and what and why still have to be learned. Don't get discouraged by the intricacies. You'll get there.

Regarding wind, for those times when I hunt and the incredibly frequent times that I'm competing, I put in a 10mph wind as my basis wind. For any wind much over that, I wouldn't take a long range shot on game personally so that's not an issue and for competition, if it's looking to be a day with potential for strong winds I'll add another column on my DOPE chart for a 20mph wind. It's usually accurate enough to take a third of a 10mph wind correction for a 3mph wind and half of a 10mph wind correction for a 5mph wind and the math is easy to do in your head under pressure, at least on the target sizes I'm dealing with.

Look at your capabilities, your equipment, your target (meat or metal) and make a choice for your basis wind that covers the most bases with the least slop. My bet is that that will be something like 10mph for your basis wind.

HTH
 
WildRose said:
I'm assuming that AMR is the same as Leupold's TBR and other similar programs so I'll give that a tentative "yes" with an aserix that says read your user's manual to be sure you fully understand what it does.

To give yourself a good example of the difference in the two try shooting ranges of tall buildings in your area from short distances. Shoot the front door and top floors in both modes and see how different the results are.
Click to expand...

Ok, will do. So, with an incline will the adjusted shot distance be further and vis-a-versa with a decline?
 
BallisticsGuy said:
Ballistics calculators vary in how they output data. You'll have to refer to the owners manual or customer support for the one you use. The one I make puts wind in its own column so you just pick the right wind distance and the right drop distance, hold wind, dial drop and shoot. Most calculators I've used have a "quick" calculator that assumes more or less a flat and level shot angle and then a mode where you can add your shot angle and all kinds of wacky non-standard conditions. Getting there requires flipping a toggle in the software either literally flipping a virtual switch or just using it in one mode versus another, figuring out which is usually less than obvious for newbs to be brutally honest. The one I make is meant to be printed, not used digitally in real life so in that respect it's a lot easier on newbs, largely by design. Still, the how and what and why still have to be learned. Don't get discouraged by the intricacies. You'll get there.

Regarding wind, for those times when I hunt and the incredibly frequent times that I'm competing, I put in a 10mph wind as my basis wind. For any wind much over that, I wouldn't take a long range shot on game personally so that's not an issue and for competition, if it's looking to be a day with potential for strong winds I'll add another column on my DOPE chart for a 20mph wind. It's usually accurate enough to take a third of a 10mph wind correction for a 3mph wind and half of a 10mph wind correction for a 5mph wind and the math is easy to do in your head under pressure, at least on the target sizes I'm dealing with.

Look at your capabilities, your equipment, your target (meat or metal) and make a choice for your basis wind that covers the most bases with the least slop. My bet is that that will be something like 10mph for your basis wind.

HTH
Click to expand...

What do you mean by wind distance? Do you mean the adjustment for wind based off of wind speed? Ok my understanding of wind was about the same. Personally, when I get to the point, I won't shoot at an animal any further than 600 yards regardless of conditions.
 
Brydawg512 said:
Ok, will do. So, with an incline will the adjusted shot distance be further and vis-a-versa with a decline?
Click to expand...
No whether the angle is up or down the true ballistic distance is the same.

Think of it in terms of a right triangle. The hypotenuse is the line of sight, the difference in elevation is vertical leg and the true ballistic range is the bottom leg. Even if you flip the triangle over 180 deg the length of the original bottom leg doesn't change.

 
Maybe this will help.

1200px-Rtriangle.svg.png


The length of side B remains the same whether point B is up or flipped over pointing down.

The length of side c also remains constant irrespective of whether B is higher or lower than point A.

Now imagine yourself sitting at point A and your target as being point B. The adjusted true ballistic range is still equal to whatever the length of side b is.
 
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